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Old 11-16-2010, 07:38 PM   #41
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.... Things got tense, I was pushed and threatened with arrest. A supervisor finally showed up, asked a female agent to screen my daughter, and lectured me on how fortunate I was to be allowed to return home instead of jail – on a later flight.

These security procedures are out of control. We enjoy a lower risk for a few hours but neither passengers not anyone else in the US are at any less risk overall. I suspect the money spent could have a greater effect if allocated to other aspects of US security.
The TSA folks don't seem to be on the same page with the existing more minor procedures. In MichaelB's daughter's case, the procedures say: "If you are asked to undergo a personal screening you will be provided a security officer of the same gender except in extraordinary circumstances. In some cases you may have to wait for a security officer of your gender to conduct the screening. You will be advised if the wait will be more than a few minutes."
(TSA: The Screening Process)

But the supervisor can always claim there were the undefined extraordinary circumstances. And threaten arrest, apparently.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:55 PM   #42
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If TSA were to do Israeli style behavior observation based on profiling, what would all the Police dept. rejects do for a living? The well established and obviously successful Israeli profiling method takes skill and fast ability to process behavior information into a further interview go/no go decision.

It does not take much brain power to look stern and direct people to step into the machine and give the order to put 'em up an spread em.

If they are to continue, the pat down/feel ups could be better done by blind people. Hightened senses they have. Besides the physical contact, persons under high stress emit unique chemicals/odors not present in normal or slightly stressed individuals. The few totally blind people I've known had remarkable olfactory auditory and tactile skills.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:02 PM   #43
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That's what scares me the most. We can put up with the less intrusive (if you can call it that) scan, but in their opinion, they can say additional screening in needed. In a perfect world, they are just doing their job. But this screening stuff reeks with privacy violation for the sake of safety.
And that's only if they bother to follow their own rules and guidelines. Unfortunately, the TSA is a fairly ineffective organization, with poor leadership and reactive, rather than proactive policies. Combining this with the fairly high annual turnover of front line employees (20%), the use of 'secret' procedures, and the attraction that wearing a uniform and being in a position of coercive authority over others has for certain people, and you have a recipe for a disaster where that front line contacts the public.

Most police and sheriff departments follow IACP guidelines in psychological screening as part of hiring new officers, as hiring the 'wrong' person can be a serious problem for a department from a morale, legal, and public relations angle. That is, you really don't want to hire someone who wants to be an officer for all the wrong reasons.

The TSA doesn't apply quite the same standards to it's hiring practices (no psychology screen beyond the aptitude test). As a result, the organization is attractive to the folks that are drawn to wearing a uniform and being in a position of authority over others. These folks get hired, along with some other perfectly fine folks, and put on the front line in contact with the public.

The TSA does track violence in the workplace as of late 2007. Now, you'd think that with all those millions of passengers that you'd see the odd violent episode break out.
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(Agency spokeswoman Kristin) Lee said attacks and threats against screeners are “rare” and the database has records from about 240 incidents. Most are screeners in conflict with other screeners. About 30 incidents involve people such as passengers or airport workers attacking or threatening screeners, Lee said.
Seven out of eight incidents are between TSA employees.

TSA has hired quite a variety of interesting folks. These folks may not behave as well as one might expect. One might try to say that a few bad apples can be expected in any organization, but that's really just a case of slothful induction, as the organization is inadvertently designed to be a magnet for such people.

The most dangerous people you encounter during your aviation experience may be the ones in TSA uniforms.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:43 PM   #44
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I had trouble with TSA in FLL when flying with my (then) collage age daughter. A couple of male agents wanted to take her behind a separate sectioned area for additional screening. I objected and insisted a female agent conduct any screening. I never lost my temper or said anything inappropriate (I did raise my voice) but absolutely insisted on female security. Things got tense, I was pushed and threatened with arrest. A supervisor finally showed up, asked a female agent to screen my daughter, and lectured me on how fortunate I was to be allowed to return home instead of jail – on a later flight.

These security procedures are out of control. We enjoy a lower risk for a few hours but neither passengers not anyone else in the US are at any less risk overall. I suspect the money spent could have a greater effect if allocated to other aspects of US security.
Unfortunately, the TSA has all the power, even if, ultimately, you could "win" in this situation. They can in fact deny you boarding a plane for no particular reason other than they get pi$$ed at you for showing any resistance. If you had been arrested, i'm certain you could eventually be vindicated - but at what cost? It seems obvious that this has become a power play and all the stops will be pulled out to force us all into the sheep chutes to the jet way. I've heard that the "don't touch my junk" guy may be assessed a fine for his comment. How you could infer that he broke a law, I don't know, but that doesn't prevent TSA (et., Al) from pressubg the issue to thwart future push-back.

I'm guessing that this will all come to a head, sooner, rather than later - perhaps as early as the TG holiday rush. How it plays out will set the stage for the way things are done in the future. If enough folks are willing to push back, things will change. Otherwise, the virtual strip search or the molestation will become SOP and be enforced with draconian methods.

We all want to be safe, but it's clear that the typical governmental response is in play here. Gag at a gnat (back-scatter X ray vs touching the junk) but swallow a camel (apparently, exempting certain religious "orders" from either of these invasive screenings.)

Don't know how this will play out, but I do believe it is up to the flying public which way it will come out. Can you imagine if 25% of folks cancelled their holiday travel plans in protest? The air carriers would do the rest and this would all be a bad memory by 2011. My guess is that folks will eventually just submit, as they usually do to other government intrusions. As always, we have the ultimate power over how our gummint treats us. We get the treatment we deserve.

Wonder if "don't touch my junk" will become the new "don't tase me bro!".
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:53 PM   #45
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Sadly, the "don't touch my junk" situation reminds me of when I was in a Catholic grade school. Because the boys were making too much noise during recess while in the bathroom, the nuns would come walking in and not caring at all if we were using the bathroom and showing our junk at the time. In their minds, the nuns weren't doing anything wrong as they were just enforcing the rules.

How's that go again? Oh yeah...

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Old 11-16-2010, 10:38 PM   #46
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My husband has artificial knees, the frisk is his only option when flying. We just moved and he went to get a physical from a new (to him) physician. After that and reading about the new procedure he commented that TSA will feel him in places his physician didn't touch.

IMHO, this is much TOO MUCH!
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:33 PM   #47
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I'm going to fly in a few hours. I have Under Armor on so I'm prepared for anything.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:43 PM   #48
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I'm going to fly in a few hours. I have Under Armor on so I'm prepared for anything.
Please use the phrase "Don't touch my junk" when passing through TSA.

Here's a funny anecdote from Penn's (of Penn & Teller) recent trip through airport security:

http://www.pennandteller.com/03/cool...ederalvip.html
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:15 PM   #49
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So the question is how much plastic explosive can a terrorist shove up their......uh...you know...........

And what will the TSA do to screen us for that?
When the TSA agent is waving me to a private room with a latex glove on one hand and a tube-a-lube in the other hand, I'll know that my air travel days are over
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:02 PM   #50
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To be continued I'm sure with Thanksgiving coming up. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out...

Maybe we should flood Youtube with a video of "Leave my Junk Alone..." instead of "Leave Brittany Alone.."
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:04 PM   #51
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I'm hoping the phrase "Don't go all Brokeback Mountain on me" is quickly replaced by "Don't go all TSA on me".
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:04 PM   #52
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When the TSA agent is waving me to a private room with a latex glove on one hand and a tube-a-lube in the other hand, I'll know that my air travel days are over
I don't think that is planned to roll out until November 2011.

Just think of the advertising tie-in, though. "Free Prostate or Pelvic Exam With Every Flight!"
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:41 PM   #53
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Please use the phrase "Don't touch my junk" when passing through TSA.

Here's a funny anecdote from Penn's (of Penn & Teller) recent trip through airport security:

Penn & Teller | ROAD PENN
Didn't have a Penn experience - same old type securuity devices in phoenix - so I didn't have to scream " don't touch my junk". I did have a random palm swabbing though - not offensive at all. Everything went well.

It looks like there were some new machines in the area and it seemed like there were more TSA people wandering around - the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday could be be interesting for air travelers.
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:20 PM   #54
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So the question is how much plastic explosive can a terrorist shove up their......uh...you know...........
A kilogram: Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers - CBS Evening News - CBS News

Yes, it's already been done. It only has to be attempted at an airport and we'll have jumped the shark (well, to the extent that we didn't do that already).
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:16 AM   #55
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I don't fly much anymore but maybe in the future my wife and I will use military flights instead. Althought we will be standby and may have to wait for an available flight it seems to be much safer from terroist attack.
On the other hand if there is a possible "silver lining" to TSA patdowns I would be more willing if I could choose an attractive female to conduct the search. Then it might be the best use so far of my tax money for their $10/hr pay. I might even go through the line twice!

Cheers!
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:07 AM   #56
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Feel free to provide your own caption...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg felt up.jpg (30.1 KB, 7 views)
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:09 AM   #57
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Feel free to provide your own caption...
That doesn't look good. I have a change of heart. I don't know who I feel more sorry for, the passenger or the TSA security officer.

As a passenger, it's one and done. As the officer, how many does he have to check in a days work?
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:16 AM   #58
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Feel free to provide your own caption...
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:19 AM   #59
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:20 AM   #60
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So what happens if the guy is ticklish around there? Does that make him more of a suspect?
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