The erosion of ideals

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by albireo13 Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar...

Respectfully, it took you 40 years to realize this?

[joeea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom56 greed is good.

I think I've heard that before...

[flintnational]

Over the last couple of hundred years, the great success of human kind has been the spread of capitalism and democracy. It has led to 100's of millions of people being lifted out of poverty, sickness, illiteracy and early death. See Hans Rosling's video or his book, Factfullness. The subtitle of the book is, "Ten reasons why we are wrong about the world and why things are better than you think".

Corporations are how humans organize to improve their lives. And, there has never been a better system for improving human outcomes. In at least the Western world, capitalism also allows for those that see things differently to start their own businesses or work in a manner (charity organizations) that benefits society but also achieves the individual's ideals.

[JoeWras]

I was very idealistic in the mid 80s and joined a Megacorp (IBM) that had some pretty high ideals. MCIMB at that time has had lasting impacts on the USA. They placed some of their sites in areas that could really use it. MCIBM changed the state of NC forever (in a good way) by locating a large site to the upstart RTP.

I saw true diversity at MCIBM live I've never seen before or since. I saw the LGBQT community respected waaaay before it was ever in the news.

This was all great.

Until it wasn't.

I left in the early 90s once I realized that these ideals were going to fly out the window at the first sign of financial pain.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras I was very idealistic in the mid 80s and joined a Megacorp (IBM) that had some pretty high ideals. MCIMB at that time has had lasting impacts on the USA. They placed some of their sites in areas that could really use it. MCIBM changed the state of NC forever (in a good way) by locating a large site to the upstart RTP. I saw true diversity at MCIBM live I've never seen before or since. I saw the LGBQT community respected waaaay before it was ever in the news.

I did lots of business with IBM in the 70s and 80s; from San Jose to Essex Junction and every place in between. Was always impressed with their approach, mindset and 'human-ness' despite their size. Most everyone there seemed reasonably happy.

[corn18]

I find working at my particular MC very rewarding. We are a defense contractor and make products that save lives and protect the U.S. I always tell my troops that we don't make paper plates and toilette paper. Do we make a profit? Yup. But there is no shame in that. Is there BS? Sure, but not enough to overshadow the vision.

This is the only MC I have worked for after 20 years in the Navy, so maybe I have a limited POV.

[albireo13]

Hi Gauss,
I'll have to post my numbers soon.

I actually can't complain too much about my job. I'm not digging ditches for a living.
Plus, it has allowed me a good living.


It's the schedule-driven stress and foolishness at MegaCorp that has me frustrated.
I used to work at Hewlett-Packard back in the day when Bill and Dave (H&P) were still around. They insisted on running the company as they saw fit, quality driven and prioritizing "doing the right thing". Met them a few times. They annually would tour the HP divisions and enjoyed walking the floor and mingling "in the trenches" with the workers. After they were gone the company morphed into another bean-counter driven corporation.

[Mdlerth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by albireo13 As I approach my retirement age, I recall the halcyon days when I was graduating college and preparing to change the world. Things were clear .... there were so many opportunities ... awesome careers awaited! Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar, specifically the dollar in the pocket of MegaCorp. So many decisions were made based on financial return to the company, rather than being the right thing to do. The optimism and idealism of youth is fleeting and easily undermined by capitalism and greed. Anyway .. just venting ....

It sounds like you are feeling some guilt over having been a practitioner of capitalism. No need. I give you dispensation. You are forgiven. Go now and sin no more.

We live in an imperfect world, and do what we have to do to get by. Don't underestimate the contribution you - or your MC - made to the universe just because it also earned you a living. Unless you were in organized crime or politics (i.e., disorganized crime), your employer wouldn't have been in business for long if it didn't provide something of value.

One more thing. The "optimism and idealism of youth" is about 99% based on naivete. If we were all that wise at age 22, we would not have engaged in some of the crazy things we did then.

[Dash man]

The capitalist system isn’t bad, it’s what individuals do with it. It has made my family secure and allowed us access to good health care. It allows us to give to other family members when needed. We also give to food banks, shelters, medical research, assistance to veterans, we sponsor children in other countries, give to emergency aid, support small business startups in developing countries, and to our church.
Those who focus on material things may be misguided, but outlooks change as we age.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras I was very idealistic in the mid 80s and joined a Megacorp (IBM) that had some pretty high ideals. MCIMB at that time has had lasting impacts on the USA. They placed some of their sites in areas that could really use it. MCIBM changed the state of NC forever (in a good way) by locating a large site to the upstart RTP. I saw true diversity at MCIBM live I've never seen before or since. I saw the LGBQT community respected waaaay before it was ever in the news. This was all great. Until it wasn't. I left in the early 90s once I realized that these ideals were going to fly out the window at the first sign of financial pain.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but when I hear the word diversity in a corporate setting all that comes to mind is clueless hr taffy pulls and bs.

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Maybe it is a generational thing, but when I hear the word diversity in a corporate setting all that comes to mind is clueless hr taffy pulls and bs.

At one MC I worked at, they stated that 10% of our bonus would be based on Diversity hiring, but it never really was implemented.

[Which Roger]

Early in my career, a much-older co-worker said "A pessimist is an optimist with experience." It took me about 20 years to see that he was right.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38Chevy454 Or as I have heard it "Everyone's a liberal until they have to pay taxes".

Certainly does not apply to me or many that I know, not even close. I don't mind paying taxes but I do mind the extraordinary waste by those spending my hard earned money.

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by albireo13 Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar, specifically the dollar in the pocket of MegaCorp. So many decisions were made based on financial return to the company, rather than being the right thing to do. The optimism and idealism of youth is fleeting and easily undermined by capitalism and greed.

Almost all MegaCrops (and most mini corps) are in the business of making money (and as much as they can) but are happy to do the right thing for the people, "as long as it makes more money for them".

Yes, I too spent over 40 years working for the man. And I always knew it was about him/them, and not me. However, I learned that early and played their game, which allowed me to make my little fortune too. Go to school, work hard, retire early and enjoy life. It's the price of admission for so many of us.

Results, in first decade of my retirement, I'll easily spend in excess of 1m just on travel, hobbies, entertainment, etc. (or non essentials) Yes, the Mega Corps I worked for took a lot but I also got a lot.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Maybe it is a generational thing, but when I hear the word diversity in a corporate setting all that comes to mind is clueless hr taffy pulls and bs.

I know what you are saying in today's climate. My current Megacorp talks the talk and walks nothing. It is all BS.


Maybe it is just my faulty happy early memories, but I thought IBM was different about it way back in the day. More walk, little talk. It helped the work experience.

[Koolau]

Some phrases come to mind not all of which I'm capable of attributing:

"Why do you think they call it w*rk, kid?"

"There are no free rides/Nobody said it'd be easy." (John Mellencamp)

"Capitalism is the worst economic system - except for all the others."

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground;" Genesis 3:19a

If I'm making a point I guess it is that most people on the planet need to w*rk to survive. I feel blessed that the Megacorp I chose (or, more importantly, who chose me) was pretty decent most of the time. It got worse as the founders passed on, but was still better than average. Spending 36 years there got to be a drag, but on the whole, I can't complain (too much.)

Following is just my opinion:

Capitalism with all its faults and excesses is still the only system that fits in with the human animal's natural selfishness. We all have our moments of altruism (some more than others) but in reality we are all basically selfish. Because of this basic human trait, we need a balance (a selfish, greedy Megacorp comes to mind.) Otherwise, we sink into taking without also giving. It works for a while, but not for long. Naturally, YMMV as may your opinion.

[imoldernu]

So... 22 years of idealism... school, and then marriage.

Next 30 years, long hours at work, four children, but no moral compromise, and an acceptance of being an average citizen. A full life and satisfying, and when my company closed down, four years of being an entrepreneur... until a life scare. Until then, the "ideal" was to take my place in the world, and maybe to retire when I turned 65. Then... 1989 and cancer was the turning point.

No more the big house and the "good life". Take a chance and retire @53... That was 30 years ago. So, as to ideals? Changed along the way, but definitely never compromised with regard to Money. Learn to live according to the means. If that meant living in a Campground, sobeit... might have been the ultimate happy... best friends in the same boat, no frills and one objective... to live every minute to enjoy life.

I think we could do it again. Fitting in to the best parts of what's possible, but not looking for the next level.

We're now 82, and very realistic about the future. Looks like we'll be fine, but have backup plans for whatever happens. No cruises, no foreign trips, no new cars, trips to "The Theatre" or eating out five times a week. Feel we've been there, done that.

This is the time for the bucket list. futzing with electronics, digging in to the world situation, drifting up to the lake for a day or two... and spending as much time as we want in learning from history, the internet, and psyching out the future.

Life... never better.

[RobbieB]

I never wanted to change the world. The purpose of my job was to earn dough to live on and have fun.

[Midpack]

Hopefully none here who disapprove of MegaCorps hold investments or profit from any MegaCorps financial performance, that might be hypocritical.

There are good and bad corporations, good and bad management, and good and bad employees. And I suspect every generation pines for the good old days...

[bloom2708]

If the goal is to save up enough to "get out", then my Megacorp job will allow me to do that MUCH faster than working for another company with 1/2 the pay, terrible benefits and no bonuses/stock awards/etc.

Megacorp is using me. I am using Megacorp. I will quit as soon as possible. I am 47.

Ideals will not help me make $40k instead of $140k and make up the difference.

At some point you realize you don't know anything about anything. Certainties and Nevers are quickly forgotten.

Pile it up, quit when you can, don't forget to have some fun along the way.