Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-16-2014, 11:12 AM   #21
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I remember when automation was supposed to shorten our work week to 32 hours.

What happened to that?
Those 32-hrs/week jobs are all in those paperless offices (remember how that was supposed to happen too?).
__________________

__________________
Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first? J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-16-2014, 11:20 AM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
Those 32-hrs/week jobs are all in those paperless offices (remember how that was supposed to happen too?).
Yes, I worked on the implementations of some of the early paperless offices. Strangely enough the first request, from users of these systems, was the ability to print on paper.:what:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 11:24 AM   #23
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 354
"So what would I recommend to a soon to graduate high school kid? First go to some form of advanced education: be it college, tech school or something that will give you skills that an employer will pay you for. This also means an education that hasgood job prospects, not a future with barely more than minimum wage potential. Second look for growing industry area. Not a declining one. Lot better to be in a career that has demand for good workers than one where it does not replace those retiring out."-

What I would recommend is to join the Coast Guard/Air Force/Army/Navy/Marine Corps. Complete 4 years and get a skill. With that skill come a little thing called the G.I. bill. As a 22 yr old with a skill and free college, you will be way ahead of the game. Or stay in for 20 and get the DB pension (and other beni's). Also, become a jack of all trades. Well, not all. But, have mutiple options. For instance, if you are an auto mech, you can also work on heating/cooling, heavy machinery, etc... Don't sell yourself short.
__________________
__________________
Bigdawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 12:02 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I remember when automation was supposed to shorten our work week to 32 hours.

What happened to that?
The ACA shortened those jobs to 29 hours!

Sorry, off topic!
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 12:23 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I remember when automation was supposed to shorten our work week to 32 hours.

What happened to that?
The other 8 hours of productivity improvement came back to the shareholders as dividends? Or, if you're so inclined, went to the big wigs of the corporation.
__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 12:44 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I remember when automation was supposed to shorten our work week to 32 hours.

What happened to that?
Those who FIRE have effectively worked shorter weeks. Rather than spread out their shorter workweeks through age 65, they have chosen to work longer weeks so they could fund many later weeks of 0 work hours.
__________________
GrayHare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 01:55 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I remember when automation was supposed to shorten our work week to 32 hours.

What happened to that?
The job is now a 40 hour/week job that produces 25% more than the 32 hours/wk job. No extra pay though!
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 07:50 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,643
It seems to me that very low skill, piece work type jobs are being automated away and parts of more skilled jobs (e.g. the technicians mentioned in the OP) are vulnerable to improving AI. But, at the same time new jobs seem to develop to supplement the new tech. Each new piece of advanced tech seems to need humans to oversee it. Sometimes, this involves less humans and sometimes more. At the same time all sorts of skilled and unskilled service industries pop up that need people.

Long term, I suspect intelligent machines may take over much of what we call work. But that will take generations and could open up opportunities for advanced leisure for the future unchained homo sapiens.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 10:28 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
If giving advice to someone younger, i'd ask them which rung of the ladder they want to stay on. If their goal is to sit on one rung and get rich, they may find the ladder shortened one day, and their rung is gone.

Have to climb the ladder of education.
__________________
target2019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 12:46 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lakewood90712's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,316
Even with automation and robotics , there are far more manufacturing then ever jobs to feed the appetite of the west for cheap consumer goods .

The thing is , they are largely in China. Many of those jobs overseas are high tech , skilled , in modern factories , with good compensation , for the local area , and many are sweatshop/grueling/dangerous jobs, like existed in the US and Briton in the 19th century. Some are even labor camps for prisoners. Even a robot can't compete with forced labor.

None of the jobs , the tech, or low skill are ever coming back.

Find a "Guberment job" of some kind if you are not a freelancer type, is the best advise I would give to someone entering the workforce.
__________________
Lakewood90712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 06:45 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Five Revolutions that Will Shape the Future of Marketing

Quote:
Revolution #3: Artificial Intelligence Becomes Less . . . Artificial

Creativity and imagination are often thought of as the one realm that computers can never conquer, because the inner workings of the mind are what make humans unique. But it is already possible to control a computer with our thoughts alone, and commercials for IBM’s Watson computer are now touting its ability to generate new ideas — helping chefs develop original new recipes, for instance — using data to spark creative inspiration.

As artificial intelligence continues to evolve and improve — powered by the combination of Big Data, the Internet of Things, and always-connected devices tied to people’s location and activities (e.g., the Apple Watch) — it will begin to behave more and more like a giant alternative brain, one that rivals and surpasses humans in many ways. Machines already do most jobs that involve repetitive motion. When machines start replacing people who use their imagination for a living — writers, designers, architects, engineers, teachers, etc. — they won’t just be taking better jobs, they’ll be challenging what it means to be human.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 07:46 AM   #32
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 728
We'll have more jobs......different jobs! Right here in America.

Why? We innovate, we adjust, the value of the dollar adjusts....we have the freedom to create.....we buy more.....more electronic toys.....larger houses with more bathrooms, family room, TV sets......we travel more.....hotel, restaurant workers....

I think back when I was a kid.....one car.....twice a year to a restaurant....Dad only had two weeks vacation.....700 square foot home....one bathroom......one TV set. And, that was the norm in my middle class neighborhood and my Dad was an electricion.....highly skilled employee.

We'll have downturns, jobs will go overseas, and we'll sell more overseas. It is a world economy but we innovate faster than the rest of the world and everything will be different but this will remain the best place in the world to live, work and retire!!!!!!
__________________
jerome len is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 08:18 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,879
Plumbers and chefs will probably still be working in 30 years.

Amethyst
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 08:34 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Senator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 3,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome len View Post
We'll have more jobs......different jobs! Right here in America.
I can only hope you are right, but they are not the types of jobs you are expecting If the playing field was the same between the USA and foreign countries, I would agree, unfortunately, it is not.

We are 100% headed for global equalization of wages. Other countries have Child labor, prison labor, the ability to just throw 'junk' in the ocean stream and rivers, and pollute the air. They can also manipulate the currency. That is why I say to the Fed, print as much as you can, and pay off all the USA debt.

I buy a TV made in China, and five years later it is junk. The Chinese buy a USA bond, and five years later it is junk. Even trade.

Until we have a tariff on goods and services produced in a way that would be a violation of our laws, and prison sentences for CEOs that allow their companies to subcontract with companies that do, the USA is headed for a service economy. And an economy that is closer to third word than what we have today. It may take 50 years, but we will get there. Look at demographic trends and wage trends, it is plain as day.

I would advise someone to enter the trades, save as much as they can, and get FI as early as possible. Use all of the business tax advantages that are available. Or get a Government job.

There would not be near as much wage disparity if immigration laws were enforced, and visa's were not given to high tech workers. Companies would be forced to train and hire here.

And if you think a company would just move overseas, let them. Just make sure the same tariffs and tax laws apply.

Employees need to be mobile, switching jobs and careers at a whim, to be able to compete. The trades will allow that more than any other occupation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
None of the jobs , the tech, or low skill are ever coming back.
+++1
__________________
FIRE no later than 7/5/2016 at 56 (done), securing '16 401K match (done), getting '15 401K match (done), LTI Bonus (done), Perf bonus (done), maxing out 401K (done), picking up 1,000 hours to get another year of pension (done), July 1st benefits (vacation day, healthcare) (done), July 4th holiday. 0 days left. (done) OFFICIALLY RETIRED 7/5/2016!!
Senator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 09:17 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
I've never understood the job complaints. I quit college sophomore year because recruiters kept calling me offering me jobs ('98). I have no degree, but have continually educated my self (industry certifications) and I have pretty much had a full time job plus 1-2 side gigs constantly since I was 20 years old. I've worked my butt off always, some employers have taken advantage of that, and I moved on to bigger and better. I've burnt more than a couple bridges, when I felt my boss was a n incompetent boob, but that has just kept me looking forward instead of back.

I quit most recently in January this year, in the morning. I had planned to take 6 months off and reboot. By 5pm I had an unexpected offer that was too good to turn down.

I fully believe that it's rough out there for a lot of folks, but I just don't have reference point for it in order to understand. Never in my career have I not seen a way to make more money by increasing a skill, or hustling more than the entitled graduate next to me. I make more money now than I ever though was possible. I've doubled my income 3-4 times since that first job out of college when I was already making as much as my parents.
__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 09:59 AM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post
I've never understood the job complaints. I quit college sophomore year because recruiters kept calling me offering me jobs ('98). I have no degree, but have continually educated my self (industry certifications) and I have pretty much had a full time job plus 1-2 side gigs constantly since I was 20 years old. I've worked my butt off always, some employers have taken advantage of that, and I moved on to bigger and better. I've burnt more than a couple bridges, when I felt my boss was a n incompetent boob, but that has just kept me looking forward instead of back.

I quit most recently in January this year, in the morning. I had planned to take 6 months off and reboot. By 5pm I had an unexpected offer that was too good to turn down.

I fully believe that it's rough out there for a lot of folks, but I just don't have reference point for it in order to understand. Never in my career have I not seen a way to make more money by increasing a skill, or hustling more than the entitled graduate next to me. I make more money now than I ever though was possible. I've doubled my income 3-4 times since that first job out of college when I was already making as much as my parents.
And yet, in spite of it all, you have remained humble.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 01:42 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post
I've never understood the job complaints. I quit college sophomore year because recruiters kept calling me offering me jobs ('98). I have no degree, but have continually educated my self (industry certifications) and I have pretty much had a full time job plus 1-2 side gigs constantly since I was 20 years old. I've worked my butt off always, some employers have taken advantage of that, and I moved on to bigger and better. I've burnt more than a couple bridges, when I felt my boss was a n incompetent boob, but that has just kept me looking forward instead of back.

I quit most recently in January this year, in the morning. I had planned to take 6 months off and reboot. By 5pm I had an unexpected offer that was too good to turn down.

I fully believe that it's rough out there for a lot of folks, but I just don't have reference point for it in order to understand. Never in my career have I not seen a way to make more money by increasing a skill, or hustling more than the entitled graduate next to me. I make more money now than I ever though was possible. I've doubled my income 3-4 times since that first job out of college when I was already making as much as my parents.
For those of us with kids in HS, would you mind being a little more specific about what you could do at age 20 that had your phone ringing constantly?
And, maybe something about the "industry certifications" that have helped you since?
__________________
Independent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 03:37 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent View Post
For those of us with kids in HS, would you mind being a little more specific about what you could do at age 20 that had your phone ringing constantly?
And, maybe something about the "industry certifications" that have helped you since?
I was into computers. Went into college thinking I would be a chemical engineer, but quickly discovered the power of the internet and became obsessed/good with them. You have to realize, that was the late 90's. If you could plug in a computer, you pretty much could find a job before Y2K. So recruiters were bloodthirsty for any warm body they could find, demand was elastic, supply limited.

re:certs - just standard certifications from Microsoft, Cisco, SAP, etc.

But for you kids - or anyones, they need to follow their interests. It's tough to be good at something you are not interested in. Of course, you need to find an interest that has income potential. I tell my HS students (coach) the same thing.


But to this day, there are many areas in IT that I can't hire people, because no one wants to learn it. That's why IT is mainly Asians and Indians being trained en masse overseas, then immigrating to the US on visa. It's ridiculous the amount of americans I can explain that with a few years hard working training up they can make 100-150 an hour, but they just won't lift a finger.
__________________

__________________
dallas27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opinion on future of equities? Birchwood Stock Picking and Market Strategy 9 03-30-2012 12:31 PM
jobs news July 8--losing government jobs palomalou FIRE Related Public Policy 72 07-12-2011 07:31 PM
Yor opinion,please? roger FIRE and Money 2 03-27-2004 03:50 PM
Your opinion,please? roger FIRE and Money 2 03-27-2004 03:32 PM
Your opinion please????? roger FIRE and Money 6 03-22-2004 10:21 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.