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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 09:25 AM   #101
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Zathras:
  • I believe CO2 is a "greenhouse" gas (edited ... you're right 2B ... it has become a political tool). That doesn't mean, ipso facto, that we have a problem caused by CO2.
  • I am absolutely sure there are environmentalists, politicians, citizens, entrepreneurs who are honestly concerned about our environment. [I was a leader in a couple of environmental groups (one receiving Presidential recognition), and my family and I care about the environment ... but in the current drama, anyone questioning the lemming leaders is ostracized. Par for the course.]
  • I call people honesty concerned about the environment good, logical folks. [The problem is that many good folks are likely being deceived by overstatements from people with axes to grind. Unfortunately, these folks don't realize that global warming is being used to scare them, just as politicians can overuse a war on terror to scare people ... it is hard to find truth.]

I don't know if global warming is truly caused by human activity, or that we are experiencing anything other than a normal cycle. I do believe and have great concern that we have too many human beings on our planet and it is putting terrible pressure on animal and plant life. [I would love to see groups like the Nature Conservancy and Urban Land Institute thrive.]

But I do know we now have generated hysteria to the point that this is a cause célèbre being used for political and economic gain. And, whenever I've seen this in my life, it is followed in a few years by admissions of excesses, the problem wasn't as bad as we thought, the causes were many, ad infinitum.

In the meantime, we're scaring the hell out of a lot of people. I'm in my mid 50's now, and I can tell you ... my life has included terrible, and almost constant warnings about nuclear war, the coming currency collapse, global cooling (yes, no kidding ... see Newsweek), epidemics, meteor collisions, etc. Almost all warnings have been overblown, and later reversed or trivialized. And when the warnings are rescinded, we're told that now, now we have better data, and we really know the truth. And, eventually, we sometimes do get truth ... but it takes awhile.

I just find it fascinating that there is a tidal wave of concern about global warming, but large numbers of people now seem to feel radical Islam isn't such a big deal.

Whatever the case, we'll need to do the best we can to find truth, and the right, honest and decent way to confront the future.
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 09:27 AM   #102
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathras
So you disagree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
Are either/both of you saying that there are no enviornmentalists that honestly are concerned about our enviornment?
If not, what DO you call someone who is honestly concerned about the enviornment?
CO2 is a molecule.  Calling something a "greenhouse gas" is only a way of defining a political framework for later discussion argument. Even Charles has been trained into calling it a "greenhouse gas." The presupposes that CO2 participates in someway to the man-made warming that is declared.  Without CO2 every plant on earth would die quickly.  We animals would then deplete our O2 and follow along.

Someone can be honestly concerned about the environment and be called an "environmentalist."  Unfortunately, what passes for "environmentalism" today is more of a political dogma.  The communists of 20 years ago have taken over the "environmental movement" with the mistruths bent anyway they like with the answer being their version of the new world order.  
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 10:33 AM   #103
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

http://ff.org/centers/csspp/pdf/20070316_notcrisis.pdf

NPR - global warming is not a crisis
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 02:16 PM   #104
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Hmmm, I have not seen this get much attention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Quote:
Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at very local scales.

Hmmm, naturally occurring, largest percentage, and not directly affected by human activity on a global scale. Is that important?

I guess Al Gore can keep his heated pool.

-ERD50

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 04:40 PM   #105
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Hmmm, I have not seen this get much attention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas


Hmmm, naturally occurring, largest percentage, and not directly affected by human activity on a global scale. Is that important?

I guess Al Gore can keep his heated pool.

-ERD50

What about those airplane contrails? Didn't the temp go down when they were grounded after 9/11 So, we need to ban all air travel and cool down the earth....

(OR, I don't remember correctly and it warmed it up.. so fly more...)
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 06:36 PM   #106
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Thank you for clarifying your position Charles. It is very logical and appreciated and I certainly have no qualms with it.

What gets my hackles up is when a whole group of people (enviornmentalists) get slammed because someone is excessive or radical in their own viewpoint.
Another great example is how no one in their right mind would throw Chirstianity out the window simply because politicians use Christianity to further their own 'image' or because someone in the name of Christianity commits atrocities.

As for dire warnings not panning out, it is part of the nature of humanity I think. Some people get worried about a disaster that could happen. Say a 1 in 50 chance that a disaster is going to kill thousands of people. Say you personally discovered this. Do you warn peaple? If so, will the media get a hold of the news? What will they report? They will try to make it into as big a deal as possible. However, don't go after the initial warning, blame the media for minimizing the relatively small chance of the disaster occuring.
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 06:44 PM   #107
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

I dont have a problem with anyones perspective as long as the naysayers are okay with getting first floor properties after the flood. Free snorkels!
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Old 03-18-2007, 08:41 PM   #108
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

That's why we bought on a hill, at 400'+ elevation ... ... the only way we'll afford lake-front property.


And, this should be interesting (I'll post the text, since the link will rapidly expire):

Quote:
Drudge Report

GORE FACES HILL GRILLING ON 'WARMING'; QUESTIONS AWAIT FORMER VP
Sun Mar 18 2007 20:23:00 ET

**Exclusive**

Temperatures are predicted to reach a high of only 43-degrees on Wednesday in Washington, but look for high-heat to come out of Al Gore's scheduled appearances on The Hill!

Gore is set to appear before Rep. John Dingell's [D-MI] all powerful Energy and Commerce Committee in the morning and Sen. Barbara Boxer's [D-CA] Environment and Public Works Committee in the afternoon.

Both are expected to have overflow seating, and protesters, both for and against Gore.

Gore will get a 30 minute opening and then Boxer and her republican counterpart, Sen. Inhofe, each get 15 minutes each of questioning in addition to their opening statements. Other senators will only get 5 min of Q & A.

"Democrat Dingell is a big global warming skeptic, so do not expect him to go too lightly on Gore," predicts a congressional source.

[Dingell has also invited Gore critic, Dr. Bjorn Lomborg, Adjunct Professor, Copenhagen Business School, to appear at the hearing. Lomborg is author of the book 'The Skeptical Environmentalist.' He recetly wrote: "The cacophony of screaming does not help." ]

Proposed questions for Gore, which are circulating behind-the-scenes, have been obtained by the DRUDGE REPORT -- question that could lead Gore scrambling for answers!

Mr. Gore: You have said several times that we have 10 years to act to stave off global warming. Was that 10 years from the first time you said that or 10 years from now? We just wanted to get a firm date from you that we can hold you to.

Mr. Gore: How can you continue to claim that global warming on Earth is primarily caused by mankind when other planets (Mars, Jupiter and Pluto) with no confirmed life forms and certainly no man-made industrial greenhouse gas emissions also show signs of global warming? Wouldn’t it make more sense that the sun is responsible for warming since it is the common denominator?

Mr. Gore: Joseph Romm, the executive director for the Center for Energy and Climate Solutions, has said we must build 700 large nuclear plants to stave off climate change. Where do you stand on the need for nuclear energy?

Mr. Gore: Do you think the earth is significantly overpopulated and that is a major contributor to your view of climate change. (If yes, what do you think is a sustainable population for the planet?)

Developing...
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