The Homeless

[Scuba]

I don’t think there is a good solution for homelessness. The beach community I live in has many homeless. Often they don’t want the housing that is available because it comes with rules they don’t want to follow. I’m all for helping the temporarily homeless people who are down on their luck and who are motivated to get their lives back on track. Unfortunately that seems to be a small minority. Many are drug and/or alcohol addicted and have been chronically homeless for years. No one wants them in their neighborhoods. Cities in Southern CA are spending many millions to try to provide solutions but nothing seems to make a dent in the problem. Meanwhile taxes keep going up.

 

[athena53]

I volunteered at a food kitchen for many years, and still get e-mails from the wonderful lady who is running it and some homeless programs.
She was recently told she did it because she was retired and rich. It was such an insulting attitude from someone who was living on the dole.

Interesting remark- I suppose it was meant as an insult to her, but really, that's why *I* volunteer. Not at food kitchens, but on my HOA, at church (I was spreading gravel on Valentine's Day!), etc. I have the time and the resources to do what I want and it's a blessing I want to share- there should be more to life than going shopping and drinking lattes at Starbucks.

 

[Souschef]

Interesting remark- . I have the time and the resources to do what I want and it's a blessing I want to share- there should be more to life than going shopping and drinking lattes at Starbucks.

I agree that is why I fly for Angel flight. We just got a new task- to fly blood between donor centers.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I run a recovery community center in my small town for people dealing with addictions and mental health issues. We have a resource room, a number of workshops and 12 step anonymous programs, recovery coaching, etc. In a town of 25k, we get about 5k people thru the door each year (not individuals, LOTS of repeat customers).

Many of our clients just had a stroke of bad luck. There but for the grace of god go I (and you!)

I agree with you on the stroke of luck. Good for you and the others here who do work to make the world a better place. I need to to do more myself to help out those less fortunate.

 

[aja8888]

We have through quite a bit of counseling learning how to deal with a kid that has been a casual meth user.
Users, even part time users, are unrepentant that what they have done is illegal and downright wrong. They don't consider themselves to have a problem.
Meth is harder to get people clean because every user is different. It takes a year to get the stuff out of your head. Addicts have told me that professional rehab is the only way to get clean from meth.
I was talking to a young man fresh out of prison, and he constantly had the desire for drugs. It was ingrained in his mind. He had a laborer job, but was semi-homeless. He's has since violated probation and gone back to prison
Unless drug users repent and decide that drugs have taken over their lives, getting them to rehab is a waste of time and money. Until they decide to change, improvements are not going to be seen. Their jail will have a revolving door for them.
Our local police are expecting very strong Mexican opiods to hit our streets any day. Those now using meth that switch over will have a strong chance of overdosing and dying.
That is what many homeless have to look forward to

The above is all true and the way it is out there (wherever "there" is). You can post until you are blue in the face about homeless issues and drug addiction, but until you have lived with it for a decade plus or so, you just don't understand the magnitude of the problem and how the U.S. is losing the battle against drugs. And I mean legal and illegal drugs.

We lost a 22 year old daughter to "legal" drug use (opiates) and our other daughter managed to "make it" and now is a successful young lady and getting married in two months. However, she can be back in the street in a second by taking one wrong pill or something illegal. Both were raised right and went thru college. I suppose we could have retired 10 years earlier if we didn't spend many, many thousands of dollars on rehab facilities and other crazy stuff not worth mentioning.

Yeah, the U.S. has problem and it doesn't matter who is in office in Washington as they are helpless given the current laws on the books and the attitudes that prevail.

 

[street]

I agree with you on the stroke of luck. Good for you and the others here who do work to make the world a better place. I need to to do more myself to help out those less fortunate.

I also thank the people that try to make a difference. I don't have the answer I also know it is a big problem and a costly one. I also know the problems these people have are brought on by themselves in most cases. They need help but will they except help and reform is another issue.

It really is a sad thing and not sure there is any way to fix the problem totally.

 

[Keim]

I also thank the people that try to make a difference. I don't have the answer I also know it is a big problem and a costly one. I also know the problems these people have are brought on by themselves in most cases. They need help but will they except help and reform is another issue.

It really is a sad thing and not sure there is any way to fix the problem totally.

Might not be so easy to make this conclusion about the current scourge. Opiates. Most people I've met got started via a legal prescription after surgery, etc.

 

[sengsational]

That's heartbreaking aja. I think if anyone thinks they know what the problem is, they need to think again.

 

[Silver]

My DBIL is the Director of the homeless coalition for the county, and writes most/all of the grants for their funding. Because of this he is exposed to a massive amount of recent/current/ongoing research.

His understanding is that there are two very distinct types of homelessness; situational or circumstantial, meaning their lives have worsened and they have no funds for housing or food. They want help, accept help, want a better life and will work for it. They may use drugs to feel better about themselves, but would rather create a more stable life. These homeless can be helped with providing minimal/low cost housing and supplimented with a highly controlled food source. They sign a contract that is behavioral and time limited, and almost 100% do well. He calls them the invisible homeless, and they make up about 65% of the homeless population in the country.
The number one cause of homelessness are single women having children they cannot afford.

The second group are the chronic homeless, and he says from research, they are almost 100% mentally ill. They are unable to help themselves, although they may appear socially capable. There is not much funding available for them, even through homeless organizations. Shelters are about it, and some are closing because of lack of funding. This issue goes back to the 1970's when the USA closed the facilities that housed the mentally ill, and sent them out them to the streets.

 

[aja8888]

That's heartbreaking aja. I think if anyone thinks they know what the problem is, they need to think again.

If anyone wants a pretty good representation of what the drug and homeless problem is worldwide, they can tune into the National Geographic channel and watch the several episode series that ran a couple of years ago called "Drugs, Inc." It's a real eye opener.

 

[aaronc879]

Might not be so easy to make this conclusion about the current scourge. Opiates. Most people I've met got started via a legal prescription after surgery, etc.

Opiates aren't the problem. They are a useful solution to a serious problem(pain). The problem is people over using/abusing the meds. I had two hip surgeries following a broken hip last year and Oxycodone was essential. I took the minimum amount to get my pain from a 8-9 to a 5-6. I never got high or 'numb'. When I no longer needed them I stopped taking them with no side effects or cravings of any kind. The pain would have been intolerable without the meds. People using them in a way not intended is the problem.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

My megacorp is pretty good in the sense that it supports staff, through funding and time, to volunteer for activities in the community. The missus and choose to volunteer at the food bank regularly.

We have a lot of homeless in Vancouver which the city and province have tried to solve. As many of the comments here illustrate, it seems to be a complex issue. On one hand, there's an affordability issue. On the other hand, there are illness, mental health, and addition issues. Unfortunately, a broad solution doesn't seem to be the answer.
As Scuba mentions, there is some housing for people which is some times refused because rules or other concerns so some would rather live "independently" in a tent in a city park so there is an element of choice going on too.
The different levels of government keep throwing money at the problem but there doesn't seem to be any traction.

 

[aja8888]

Opiates aren't the problem. They are a useful solution to a serious problem(pain). The problem is people over using/abusing the meds. I had two hip surgeries following a broken hip last year and Oxycodone was essential. I took the minimum amount to get my pain from a 8-9 to a 5-6. I never got high or 'numb'. When I no longer needed them I stopped taking them with no side effects or cravings of any kind. The pain would have been intolerable without the meds. People using them in a way not intended is the problem.

Every one is different. We had a middle aged neighbor go thru three back operations and got hooked on opiates. He had worked all his life, was a non-drinker and was raising a family with two college age sons. He told me he had tried to get off pain pills but was not physically able to. He eventually lost his job, his wife divorced him, they lost the house, and he ended up on the streets.

I had a total hip replacement @ 65 and never needed more than Tylenol 3 during recovery.

DW had a heart valve replacement last year @72 and recovered quite well without opiates.

In my limited experiences, there are many causes of the opiate epidemic, some are personal, some are related to drug companies pushing pills, and some are the greedy docs who push the pills.

Not to worry now that the gov has the "bad guy" docs under control thru monitoring distribution (they think so, haha), but heroin is now filling the needs of the lack of opiates.

 

[Nemo2]

I had a total hip replacement @ 65 and never needed more than Tylenol 3 during recovery.

DW had a heart valve replacement last year @72 and recovered quite well without opiates.

I got run over by a truck, and when my wife went to fill the prescription, (I never took any of the pills), the apparently quite shocked pharmacist asked her "What are these for?"

Likewise my late wife was given them for her cancer, and said "I'm not taking this ***"...or words to that effect.

One size doesn't fit all.

 

[aja8888]

I got run over by a truck, and when my wife went to fill the prescription, (I never took any of the pills), the apparently quite shocked pharmacist asked her "What are these for?"

Likewise my late wife was given them for her cancer, and said "I'm not taking this ***"...or words to that effect.

One size doesn't fit all.

Exactly, that was my point to aaronc879's post.

 

[Keim]

This matches my experience working for the local homeless shelter and Recovery Community Center to a "t."

My DBIL is the Director of the homeless coalition for the county, and writes most/all of the grants for their funding. Because of this he is exposed to a massive amount of recent/current/ongoing research.

His understanding is that there are two very distinct types of homelessness; situational or circumstantial, meaning their lives have worsened and they have no funds for housing or food. They want help, accept help, want a better life and will work for it. They may use drugs to feel better about themselves, but would rather create a more stable life. These homeless can be helped with providing minimal/low cost housing and supplimented but a highly controlled food source. They sign a contract that is behavioral and time limited, and almost 100% do well. He calls them the invisible homeless, and they make up about 65% of the homeless population in the country.
The number one cause of homelessness are single women having children they cannot afford.

The second group are the chronic homeless, and he says from research, they are almost 100% mentally ill. They are unable to help themselves, although they may appear socially capable. There is not much funding available for them, even through homeless organizations. Shelters are about it, and some are closing because of lack of funding. This issue goes back to the 1970's when the USA closed the facilities that housed the mentally ill, and sent them out them to the streets.

 

[Nemo2]

Exactly, that was my point to aaronc879's post.

Yes...my post was to reinforce yours.

 

[aja8888]

Yes...my post was to reinforce yours.

I must be daydreaming today...

 

[Keim]

Opiates aren't the problem. They are a useful solution to a serious problem(pain). The problem is people over using/abusing the meds. I had two hip surgeries following a broken hip last year and Oxycodone was essential. I took the minimum amount to get my pain from a 8-9 to a 5-6. I never got high or 'numb'. When I no longer needed them I stopped taking them with no side effects or cravings of any kind. The pain would have been intolerable without the meds. People using them in a way not intended is the problem.

Absolutely, a useful tool for many people. Similarly, for many that started using them via a prescription they become an addiction. https://goo.gl/images/gk3Wfy

 

[Choices]

Absolutely, a useful tool for many people. Similarly, for many that started using them via a prescription they become an addiction. https://goo.gl/images/gk3Wfy

As a grateful member of a recovery group I have heard many stories of loved ones who ended up addicted after being prescribed pain pills for a sports injury.
And as a child of alcoholics I am very leary of all pain meds. Again, there but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Opiates aren't the problem. They are a useful solution to a serious problem(pain). The problem is people over using/abusing the meds. I had two hip surgeries following a broken hip last year and Oxycodone was essential. I took the minimum amount to get my pain from a 8-9 to a 5-6. I never got high or 'numb'. When I no longer needed them I stopped taking them with no side effects or cravings of any kind. The pain would have been intolerable without the meds. People using them in a way not intended is the problem.

There is an interesting Tedtalk that makes the same point - it is not only drugs but the environmental stressors that cause people to want the drugs that are a big part of the problem -

https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong

 

[Lstansbury]

Love that Ted talk. As someone from a family of addicts, who survived that with the help of AlAnon, that talk is the bomb.

 

[Another Reader]

The City of San Jose wants to build a homeless "village" on a property adjacent to industrial buildings and a million dollar plus subdivision of homes. You can imagine the reaction of the homeowners. The City swears they will vet the applicants and only allow those without drug and alcohol problems to live there. Needless to say, no one believes this will be effective.

The homeless I see are on the street. Almost 100 percent have drug, alcohol, and/or mental illness issues. They beg at busy intersections and party at night with the proceeds. Petty crime is at an all time high where they hang out.

No doubt there are some homeless families and individuals that are reasonably functional people, probably living in cars away from the ones we see hanging out on the streets. If you can figure out who they are and where they live, connecting them with social services and providing some transitional shelter in an appropriate location to get them on their feet is fine.

The rest need to be disincentivized from their current lifestyles and removed where appropriate. We need to go back to a system where the nonfunctional mentally ill are placed in mental institutions against their will. Yes, we are going to have to pay for it. Drug addicts and alcoholics should not be allowed to beg or live on the streets. Begging and vagrancy used to be criminal offenses, precisely to control this. We need to go back to that. No sympathy for addicts at public expense. Either shape up or ship out.

 

[street]

The City of San Jose wants to build a homeless "village" on a property adjacent to industrial buildings and a million dollar plus subdivision of homes. You can imagine the reaction of the homeowners. The City swears they will vet the applicants and only allow those without drug and alcohol problems to live there. Needless to say, no one believes this will be effective.

The homeless I see are on the street. Almost 100 percent have drug, alcohol, and/or mental illness issues. They beg at busy intersections and party at night with the proceeds. Petty crime is at an all time high where they hang out.

No doubt there are some homeless families and individuals that are reasonably functional people, probably living in cars away from the ones we see hanging out on the streets. If you can figure out who they are and where they live, connecting them with social services and providing some transitional shelter in an appropriate location to get them on their feet is fine.

The rest need to be disincentivized from their current lifestyles and removed where appropriate. We need to go back to a system where the nonfunctional mentally ill are placed in mental institutions against their will. Yes, we are going to have to pay for it. Drug addicts and alcoholics should not be allowed to beg or live on the streets. Begging and vagrancy used to be criminal offenses, precisely to control this. We need to go back to that. No sympathy for addicts at public expense. Either shape up or ship out.

Trying to solve one issue creates more issues. I see your points exactly and can't agree with you more. I do feel bad for these souls but they need to help themselves also.

 

[MichaelB]

Thanks for an interesting discussion
.
.