Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-15-2014, 08:31 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
veremchuka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: irradiated - too close to the nuclear furnace
Posts: 1,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Stocking up on the current long bulbs is what I am going to do. I do not turn those lights on much anyways, and I will still sleep well knowing my personal carbon footprint is a 1000 times less than Mr. Gore's is despite me using these terrible things. Besides, it isn't like I special ordered them. If I don't buy them someone else will.
I agree but here's the rub. The shop light fixtures I buy at Home Depot don't last all that long. I've had to toss out a few after a few years use as they fail to light. The fixtures are inexpensive so it may be cheaper to buy new fixtures vs stocking up on T12 bulbs and then not have the parts to fix the fixtures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Well I just bought 4 pairs of T12's. Wow, they aren't cheap either. Over $30 for 8 of them. Looks like $100 worth will provide me 3 sets and that should cover my lifetime needs.
Yep I found the T8 tubes much cheaper than the T12 when I was pricing shop lights. I have 1 T12 and had to buy T8 fixtures when I wanted 4 of them. I wasn't happy but the T8 do use less electricity. The 1 T12 I have is over the work bench in the basement that is at least 12 years old. It is slow to light and doesn't throw as much light as I think it should in winter so maybe one day that fixture will go in the trash along with the 2 tubes in it.

I bought a lot of 100 watt bulbs and some of the other sizes I use. CFL's don't work well or last very long in many applications.
__________________

__________________
veremchuka is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-15-2014, 09:12 PM   #42
Full time employment: Posting here.
Al in Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 688
I just bought five 30R LED flood lights (rated 22 year life) at Costco with an instant rebate offer by the local electric utility for $6.35 each. They were over $25 each last time I checked a year ago.
__________________

__________________
Ohio INTJ ENG ER Hopeful
Al in Ohio is offline  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:41 PM   #43
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: seattle
Posts: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Totally, and vehemently disagree. I can decide for myself, and do it better than someone in DC or my State capital which light bulbs are best to put in the sockets in my home. And it is totally insulting to tell me I'm too dumb to do this for myself. It aggravates the heck out of me.

I use a bunch of CFLs where they make sense. I use incandescents where they make sense (seldom used sockets, or where I need instant on, even in -20 degree weather). And I've got a bunch of lights on dimmers (highly touted as an energy conservation measure years ago), and I don't want to pay extra for the dimmable CFLs. When LEDs come down in price a bit more, I'll be looking at them some more (I'm already reading the real life expectancy is being exaggerated - the LED may last, but the power supply capacitors won't).

When my porch light doesn't come on when someone rings my bell on a cold night, will my Congressman come and hold a flashlight for me? No, so stop making decisions like this for me!

If energy conservation is a priority, there are far better ways to do it than to micro-manage my light sockets from a Capital building.

-ERD50
I have no doubt that a healthy black market will emerge to supply the old style bulbs pretty quick if the law is that unpopular. Look what happened to freon.
__________________
bld999 is offline  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:53 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
The "great" part of this whole law is that it was pushed by those giant light bulb manufacturers. There's not much profit for them in cheap incandescent bulbs, even if they burn out a lot. CFLs, on the other hand--lots more expensive (and if anybody believes the rated lifetimes of these CFLs--well . . . I've got a whole bag of ded ones that stand in silent testimony to their far shorter life in real applications).
So, the bulb manufacturers lobbied the government to help ban everyone from selling these low-profit products.
Quote:
People often assume green regulations like this represent the triumph of environmental activists trying to save the planet. That’s rarely the case, and it wasn't here. Light bulb manufacturers whole-heartedly supported the efficiency standards. General Electric, Sylvania and Philips — the three companies that dominated the bulb industry — all backed the 2007 rule, while opposing proposals to explicitly outlaw incandescent technology (thus leaving the door open for high-efficiency incandescents).
More here (NY Times) and here (Washington Examiner).

Simple rent-seeking behavior. It's just crony capitalism (regardless of which party/politicians are behind it).
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now  
Old 01-16-2014, 05:10 AM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Totally, and vehemently disagree. I can decide for myself ...
But that's just the point. There is no legitimacy in "deciding for one's self" with regard to something that is intended in society's best interest. It simply isn't just all about ourselves all the time. It is one thing to work to improve the standards set forth for society so that those standards better support society's interests. It is another thing entirely to set aside society's best interests in favor of one's own, regarding how members of society use, exploit or abuse opportunities, when those opportunities have impact beyond one's own body, one's own home, and one's own worship. There is no escaping the fact that excessive energy usage is more than just a cost concern for the waste-er, but rather also weakens society itself, and therefore affect other people.
__________________
bUU is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 05:56 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
There is no escaping the fact that excessive energy usage is more than just a cost concern for the waste-er, but rather also weakens society itself, and therefore affect other people.
Ah, so much material here . . .
"Excessive energy usage": Okay, who decides what is "excessive"? I'm denied a cheap 60 watt incandescent bulb for my closet (total "on" time per year: 3 hours) but Bono can burn 40,000 lbs of jet fuel to take him from his 50 room estate to an environmental concert?

Are these mandated "efficient" bulbs even efficient in all applications? I assure you that using an incandescent bulb in my closet is more environmentally sound than putting a CFL in there (term of the day: "embodied energy").

If we decide as a society that energy use has costs to us all that go beyond the user, and if we decide that reducing this use is worth the cost (regulation, lost opportunity to do something more important with the money we'll spend), then the best way to reduce energy use is to just make it cost exactly what it "should" sell for if all these other externalized costs to society/the planet/etc were included. If energy was twice as expensive then demand for efficient bulbs would climb. More importantly, people would find ways to reduce energy use in many, many ways that work well for them and which go well beyond light bulbs.
But we still shouldn't do it. Problems:
- Setting the "proper" price.
- Acting alone: US consumers and producers suffer so China can pollute more making their own products and services with low cost energy.

This phase-out of incandescent bulbs is a government subsidy to manufacturers--masquerading as environmental do-goodism.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now  
Old 01-16-2014, 06:09 AM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Ah, so much material here . . .
"Excessive energy usage": Okay, who decides what is "excessive"?
The point is that, when it comes to society, it's society's designated institutions that make the determination for society - it isn't you.

To understand how society works it is important to understand that one's self is not all that matters to society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
I'm denied a cheap 60 watt incandescent bulb for my closet (total "on" time per year: 3 hours) but Bono can burn 40,000 lbs of jet fuel to take him from his 50 room estate to an environmental concert?
So what you're saying is that the laws need to tax Bono's excessive usage to compensate society for the burden his abuse imposes to society. Can you see that that is what you're saying, or are you going to insist on seeing only how living in society with others "denies" you a 60 watt incandescent bulb?

Incidentally, instead of paying the 18.4¢/gal federal gasoline tax: "As of 2007, jet fuel (called "kerosene for aviation" by the IRS) is taxed at 21.9¢/gal unless it is used for commercial aviation (airlines such as American Airlines and US Airways and small chartered commercial jets)." Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
bUU is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 06:20 AM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
So what you're saying is that the laws need to tax Bono's excessive usage to compensate society for the burden his abuse imposes to society.
Quite the opposite: I said we shouldn't take these actions. But if "society" wanted to cut energy use as a goal in itself (again--I don't think it should), increasing the cost of energy would be more effective than these inane pinpricks of downward-directed "do things this way even though you know it is dumb."

I'm running my electric toaster oven on full blast and imposing many costs on others until you agree with my position.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now  
Old 01-16-2014, 08:04 AM   #49
Full time employment: Posting here.
Redbugdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 959
If I am paying for my electricity then I should be able to use it like I want. It's my electric bill. If I get tired of having a higher electric bill because I have not gone to a more expensive efficient bulb that requires a new fixture then that's my business. That's the way I feel about it. When my ballasts go bad, then I will change. I'm going to stock up on the bulbs till then.
__________________
"I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it." Ashleigh Brilliant
Redbugdave is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 09:10 AM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Totally, and vehemently disagree. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
But that's just the point. There is no legitimacy in "deciding for one's self" with regard to something that is intended in society's best interest. ...
See samclem's response. He said everything I would want to, and since he woke earlier than me, he saved me a lot of typing energy.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 09:33 AM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
But that's just the point. There is no legitimacy in "deciding for one's self" with regard to something that is intended in society's best interest. It simply isn't just all about ourselves all the time. It is one thing to work to improve the standards set forth for society so that those standards better support society's interests. It is another thing entirely to set aside society's best interests in favor of one's own, regarding how members of society use, exploit or abuse opportunities, when those opportunities have impact beyond one's own body, one's own home, and one's own worship. There is no escaping the fact that excessive energy usage is more than just a cost concern for the waste-er, but rather also weakens society itself, and therefore affect other people.
[Mod Edit]
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 10:02 AM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Quite the opposite: I said we shouldn't take these actions. But if "society" wanted to cut energy use as a goal in itself (again--I don't think it should), increasing the cost of energy would be more effective than these inane pinpricks of downward-directed "do things this way even though you know it is dumb." I'm running my electric toaster oven on full blast and imposing many costs on others until you agree with my position.
Sam, you better have a back up toaster oven ready when the first one burns out as this appears to be a situation of "bunkered down, philosophical trench warfare"
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 10:37 AM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,387
While there must be some compromise from each individual to have a functional society, we must be aware of protecting some personal freedom and choices.

What if, for the good of society, we pass a law saying there is no reason a man needs more than 500 sqft of space, and a couple no more than 1,000 sq.ft. Efficient use of space and reduced energy usage, you know? More than that, common walls between housing units would cut back on heating and cooling costs. Yep, round them up and put them in housing projects. And while we are at it, what are these lazy ER's people doing? Nothing? While they are still healthy and can still contribute to society by doing some gardening, trimming grass along the road way? That will get them some fresh air and good exercise to cut down on healthcare costs.

I wrote the above to show that we must strike a balance between the two extremes. And that is independent of what one thinks about this particular light bulb issue.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 10:43 AM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Sam, you better have a back up toaster oven ready when the first one burns out as this appears to be a situation of "bunkered down, philosophical trench warfare"
When the toaster burns out, I'll turn on the waffle iron, then the griddle, then the hair dryer. I'll heat my home with small electric appliances and I'll probably get a Christmas card from my power company and the high-sulfur coal company they buy from.

We need to start a movement: Those who want the freedom to buy electric bulbs of their choice should leave their (incandescent) porch lights burning 24/7. Let Lady Liberty's torch shine on free homes throughout suburbia. When the intrusive laws are extinguished, we'll turn off the porch lights.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now  
Old 01-16-2014, 10:48 AM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,387
But then, the remaining incandescent bulbs I have will not last long!
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 10:51 AM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
When the toaster burns out, I'll turn on the waffle iron, then the griddle, then the hair dryer. I'll heat my home with small electric appliances and I'll probably get a Christmas card from my power company and the high-sulfur coal company they buy from. We need to start a movement: Those who want the freedom to buy electric bulbs of their choice should leave their (incandescent) porch lights burning 24/7. Let Lady Liberty's torch shine on free homes throughout suburbia. When the intrusive laws are extinguished, we'll turn off the porch lights.
My best laugh of the week! Highly motivating, too. The lights in my house are about 50/50. Makes me want to get up and unscrew the CFLs and throw them in the trash and open up my vault of Edison bulbs I already have stashed away for the future!
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 11:27 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Ditto for samclam's and NW=bound's elaborations. ++++++++++ Far better wordsmiths than I.

By the way toaster ovens are roughly $5.- at goodwill, endless supply. I do resent society deciding how I will spend my money and on what.

[Mod Edit]
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 11:34 AM   #58
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,514
But now they are going to ban toaster ovens! I heard the replacements will be EZ-Bake types with internal 500W Halogen bulbs providing the heat.

Seriously, Halogen bulbs stink to high heaven. I used those in a few applications because I didn't like CFLs. I was trying to "save the world" or something. They burned out fast. Hated them.

I shouldn't admit this, but I've stocked up on 100, 60 and 40s and have a pretty good supply. When they run out, LED tech should finally be good enough. But I think I'm good for at least 10 years. I have sinned, my brothers and sisters...

Edit: oh yeah, I also have a nice stock of 75s too.
__________________
JoeWras is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 12:26 PM   #59
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
The shop light fixtures I have that use T-12 bulbs cost maybe twice what a pair of bulbs cost, and the damn things both flicker and eat bulbs. (Maybe they sell them as a loss leader to get more bulb sales?)

I've been thinking about replacing them anyway. This gives me a good excuse. More junk for the metal recyclers...
__________________
M Paquette is offline  
Old 01-16-2014, 12:28 PM   #60
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telly View Post

Going away are T12 40w 4 foot tubes, 8 foot tubes, the U-tube, etc. "T12" is the tube diameter in eighths of an inch. A T12 is 1 1/2" in diameter. A few T8 (1" diameter)tubes are going away also.
Two weeks ago we replaced a T12 fixture with a T8 one. This is the ceiling light in the kitchen. The old T12 wasn't turning on right away and sometimes didn't turn on at all. DH switched bulbs and that didn't change anything. One of the ballasts looked darker than the other one and some wiring at one end looked aged so we thought replacing the fixture was better than trying to replace a ballast.

I had no idea that the T8 bulbs were being fazed out. Going by the package on the T8 bulbs that we bought (32W 3000K) the lifespan should be about 8 years so I guess it would be prudent to buy another set to keep on hand.
__________________

__________________
Married, both 62. DH retired June, 2010. I have a pleasant little part time job.
Sue J is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:14 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.