Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:32 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
Re: The obesity epidemic

Martha -- please don't go away on account of the postings of some two-bit know it all. You have helped a lot of people here, and most of them appreciate it.

jeff2006 is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:33 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Rich I'm not saying they want to be obese or a smoker, only that they don't want to do what is necessary to lose weight or stop smoking. *I've been there and done that. *Eventually, to paraphrase the 12-step programs, they (me) hit bottom and decide to change our behaviors. *Bottom is different for each person.
Ah, yes, another "compassionate" conservative... *Always willing *to let their fellow man "hit bottom" since, hey, its just helping them, right?
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:34 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
cube_rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,466
Re: The obesity epidemic

I guess alcoholics and drug addicts should just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and change their behavior too
__________________
fuzzy? cute?
cube_rat is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:38 PM   #24
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Rich I'm not saying they want to be obese or a smoker, only that they don't want to do what is necessary to lose weight or stop smoking. *I've been there and done that. *Eventually, to paraphrase the 12-step programs, they (me) hit bottom and decide to change our behaviors. *Bottom is different for each person.
A lot of people are tired of hearing this self-righteous crap. How in hell would you know what somebody else wants to do or doesn't want to do?
jeff2006 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:40 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by cube_rat
I guess alcoholics and drug addicts should just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and change their behavior too
And those abused spouses, abandoned kids, welfare moms, crack babies...
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:45 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I am too personally wound up about this. *Azanon says this isn't real life. *I treat it like it is. *So I am taking a break for a while. *
Martha, I want you to know that I am dead serious. Please don't quit. Most people here agree with you, and even those who don't likely appreciate your kindness and depth of understanding.

I get a lot of low cost easy to accomplish social contact here. It isn't complete, but I certainly believe that it is real. In some ways, we are able to let our guards down more here than in some face to face relationships.

What is it- Gresham’s Law- bad money drives out good? Let’s not let a social version of Gresham’s Law rule here.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:49 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: The obesity epidemic

You guys are attacking lets-retire in defense of Martha, right? * *I have a feeling she can handle the defense just fine if she wants to. ** *Sounds like she just doesn't want to make the emotional investment right now.* *Let her take a break -- no need to form a lynch mob....

He's got a point. * You can't make people change their behavior if they don't want to. * Food is good. * Exercise is hard. * I have to run an hour to burn off one cookie. * That sucks if you like cookies. * *I'm sure that some people weigh the costs and benefits, and basically decide to be fat.
wabmester is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:53 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: The obesity epidemic

Cube-rat and Brewer--With any addiction the person has to want to stop. *If they don't they will continue to use whatever they are addicted to. *If the desire to stop what ever they are doing is not strong enough the first sign of adversity will send them back to their old habits. *As far as hitting bottom, like I stated for every person it is different. *Some it is the realization that if they don't quit they will end up dead others it is losing everything. *

Brewer--The difference between overeating , smoking, using drugs is that the person is choosing to do those things. *Being a victim of a crime is not always a choice. *Being a welfare mom sorry to say is a choice. *I can honestly say in 15 years I have not arrested any babies who went out an purchased crack for anybody. *That they are born with the addiction is sad and deserving of assistance for the child. *Heck my son was turned into an alcoholic when he was 6 months old by his biological mother. *

Jeff--When someone wants to lose weight or stop some addiction they do it, period. *Sometimes they need the support of others, but last time I checked that was free.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:57 PM   #29
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
Re: The obesity epidemic

LR -- what are your qualifications to make pronouncements in this field?
jeff2006 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 02:58 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2006
LR -- what are your qualifications to make pronouncements in this field?*
Certified Know-It-All, just like the rest of us.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:05 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
You guys are attacking lets-retire in defense of Martha, right? * *I have a feeling she can handle the defense just fine if she wants to. * *
I'm not attacking anyone, though I admit I was not overjoyed to see the return of Mr Mensa.

Policies from the political right may often be better, in that least some of them are cheaper. (Excluding wars and corporate welfare).

But I don’t like the shallow intellectual posturing that goes with it. It's one thing if someone wants to say, yeah, I know life sucks and some for some people it sucks really bad, but that's how the cookie crumbles. OK. I can understand, life for the writer is currently good and he doesn't have the imagination to figure anything much could change it for the worse.

But please, spare us the intellectually bankrupt posturing that some use to rationalize their lack of feeling.

The only aggression that is tolerated here is passive aggression, and there is plenty of that.

I really think that whenever one of the women posters is tempted to pack it in, we should support her and try to help her stay. They are what makes this board way better than the typical men farting on each other and seeing who can pee the farthest board.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:10 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
I really think that whenever one of the women posters is tempted to pack it in, we should support her and try to help her stay. They are the only thing that makes this board way better than the typical men farting on each other and seeing who can pee the farthest that most boards become.
That's true, but I don't think Martha wants you to beat somebody up on her behalf. Or maybe she's into that kind of chivalry, in which case you should punch him in the nose.

Come back, Martha. We love you, and we have chocolate!
wabmester is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:13 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2006
LR -- what are your qualifications to make pronouncements in this field?*
Mother, father, sister recovering alcoholics. *Mother, sister, brother were all heavily into illegal drugs, but are now clean. *Wife is obese. *She was losing a lot of weight, but because of some heavy duty drugs after her surgery she shot back up. *The doctor told her this would happen. *Wife and I were chronic smokers we both decided to quit. *Due to all of the family being in AA I had access to much of the literature and read most of it. *During my college years I did several research projects into addicitons. *

I have arrested numerous people for drug related charges. *These people were sentenced to drug treatments. *Because they were not self motivated to stay clean, they don't. *The people who view their arrest as the bottom amazingly stayed clean longer. *I watched several of these people go on to make a good life for themselves.

I'd say that makes me as knowledgable as any to speak on the topic.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:20 PM   #34
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
Re: The obesity epidemic

Yeah . . you and Joe Friday know it all.
jeff2006 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:21 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: The obesity epidemic

Oh yeah I also forgot to put my son in that list of alcoholics. Because of his additicon, I had to go to classes about alcoholism.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:23 PM   #36
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
Re: The obesity epidemic

If all of this is true, your life is a mess, and you don't need to be giving advice to anyone.
jeff2006 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:24 PM   #37
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
Bring on the fat tax!
Ah, yes, the military system.

"We'd love to promote you because you're qualified and we really really need you... but you just happen to be over the official weight standards. *Luckily we've signed you up for mandatory counseling, nutritional training, 3x/week supervised workouts, and monthly weigh-ins. Please don't miss any of these obligations under penalty of UCMJ, and get back to us about that promotion & pay raise when you're within standards. *Have a nice day, and don't forget to re-enlist!"

Hmmm... now what can we do to get those retention rates back up again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Rich I'm not saying they want to be obese or a smoker, only that they don't want to do what is necessary to lose weight or stop smoking. *I've been there and done that. *Eventually, to paraphrase the 12-step programs, they (me) hit bottom and decide to change our behaviors. *Bottom is different for each person.
Lets-retire, either you missed the "higher power" part of all those AA meetings or you're eligible for membership in the Navy's submarine nuclear-mentality community. *You can't do it all on your own, and eventually even those bottom-strikers need help. *Was someone around when it happened to you?

Just as 90% of all aircraft accidents are pilot error, more than 95% of all Navy submarine nuclear incidents are judged to be personnel error. *Unfortunately the process of assigning accountability, getting the operator/supervisor to accept responsibility for that accountability, and correcting their deficiencies tends to drive them out of the service. *It's sort of like delousing a cat with a flamethrower. *I don't miss it a bit yet I find myself reverting to a Type A nuke every time I have the "What were you thinking?" conversation with my teenager.

You agree with the "Al got stupid" logic, but Caroline has you pegged. *I never had the opportunity to look down a gun barrel but I spent over two decades making sure that I and my shipmates didn't get stupid. *All of that training is of no use when random acts of destruction (or violence) happen. *We can't control or avoid everything but we can take reasonable precautions and be ready to deal with the unavoidable & unreasonable. *It's not failure to take responsibility when that happens, but it's naive to not plan for the unthinkable just because we believe that we should have trained ourselves out of it in the first place. *

Recognize random chance for what it is-- staying so long in the game that even the impossible happens. *Then think about what the survivors should do to recover, not whose fault it is for not being ready in the first place. *If any human error is involved, it would be staying too long in the the game. *I hear the same sentiments from my nephew the Army Ranger and another infantry captain who's learned about life from Afghanistan.

As for human motivation to change, years of smoking or overeating or alcoholism train the body's biology and rewire the brain's endorphin production. *(Exhibit A: *Keith Richards.) *When someone becomes a different person, they can't just wake up one morning and boostrap themselves into a new, healthy configuration. *Cognitive dissonance is all too alive & well in humans (see Exhibit A again), especially when the "good for you" part is made so exceptionally painful by having to haul oneself out of the body's well-worn groove.
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:24 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: The obesity epidemic

My life isn't a mess. *My extended family on the other hand....
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:29 PM   #39
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
Re: The obesity epidemic

So by now perhaps you should have learned that other people simply don't value your opinion on topics such as the present topic. Keep it to yourself!
jeff2006 is offline  
Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 09-28-2006, 03:29 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
I have arrested numerous people for drug related charges. These people were sentenced to drug treatments. Because they were not self motivated to stay clean, they don't. The people who view their arrest as the bottom amazingly stayed clean longer. I watched several of these people go on to make a good life for themselves.
While I agree with some of your sentiments, that doesn't mean we don't have to help people. There's the pure financial factor - help them lose weight and exercise, help us spend less money on health care - and there's the societal factor.

The "help" programs aren't there for the Howard Roark Mensa Thinkers. They're for everyone else. It's great that the Ironmen, those models of pure capitalism, don't need help and can pull themselves up by their bootstraps blahblahblah but the rest of us someday may need the help, whether it's smoking programs or medicare.


eridanus is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Hidden Epidemic on PBS cube_rat Health and Early Retirement 0 02-15-2007 01:46 PM
The obesity thread impact on our boards sgeeeee Other topics 2 10-12-2006 03:35 AM
Illegitimate Offspring of the Obesity Thread brewer12345 Other topics 19 10-11-2006 06:20 PM
Son of the Obesity Thread brewer12345 Other topics 3 10-11-2006 12:45 PM
Doppelganger of the Obesity Thread brewer12345 Other topics 0 10-11-2006 12:29 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.