The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

[Zipper]

Mog, what do we expect from a 35 year old?

You weren't there in the 50's!

 

[bogart]

Perhaps you can be fond of yesteryear because of the quaity of life, which has little to do with the standard of living except in the case of escaping true poverty.

 

[moghopper]

Mog, what do we expect from a 35 year old?

You weren't there in the 50's!

True enough. I wouldn't dream of robbing anyone of their childhood! :

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I would not go live in the 50s.  Not even if you paid me.  Those who do, well, there are actuarial tables to take care of that.

I would argue that many could be single career families if they were willing to live "50s style".  Most wouldn't want to, even if that were presented to them.  I have continually volunteered myself to stay home, but DW isn't buying it.   :

You're generous!

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/5-15-01askeds.html
1400 Square Feet in 1970
2200 Square Feet in 2005

Also, Mother Jones, but you'd figure they're worried about "excess"
http://www.motherjones.com/news/exhibit/2005/03/exhibit.html
"Since 1950, the average new house has increased by 1,247 sq. ft. Meanwhile, the average household has shrunk by 1 person."

http://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf
1973 Avg:1660  Median:1525
2004 Avg:2349  Median:2140

Houses are larger, fewer people are living in them, they're better insulated...

I wish I had lived in the 50s...........1850s that is. Rugged individuals
and little intrusive government. I would gladly accept the hardships
vs, the socialist/PC situation we have today. BTW, for those of you
who want to point out the medical advances, I would rather die 20 years early than endure a "Big Brother" style government.

JG

 

[HFWR]

Neither the 1850s nor the 1950s have much appeal for me, but to each his own...

 

[Caroline]

I say that those who are fond of yesteryear have forgotten all the advances in the standard of living.

Two words: Modern Dentistry.

 

[HFWR]

Two more: toilet paper (and/or indoor plumbing...)

 

[Eagle43]

Two words: Modern Dentistry.

Spot on, Caroline. When I saw David McCollough, author of 1776, he was asked what would our forefathers think of us? He replied" They'd think we were weak." He mentioned their teeth which were usually rotting. Ever wonder why in those great paintings of Washington, Jefferson, etc. aren't smiling?

I wish I had lived in the 50s...........1850s that is. Rugged individuals
and little intrusive government. I would gladly accept the hardships
vs, the socialist/PC situation we have today. BTW, for those of you
who want to point out the medical advances, I would rather die 20 years early than endure a "Big Brother" style government.

JG

Bye Bye! JG.. I lived thru the 1950s. I don't believe we had air conditioning in my deep south house until I left. To even think of the 1850s is scary. Did they have aspirin then? You would rather die 20 years earlier than live in, say Sweden or France? You got to be kidding or you're taking this conservative demeanor a tad too far. . .

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Spot on, Caroline.  When I saw David McCollough, author of 1776, he was asked what would our forefathers think of us?  He replied" They'd think we were weak."  He mentioned their teeth which were usually rotting.  Ever wonder why in those great paintings of Washington, Jefferson, etc. aren't smiling?  Bye Bye!  JG.. I lived thru the 1950s. I don't believe we had air conditioning in my deep south house until I left.   To even think of the 1850s is scary.  Did they have aspirin then?  You would rather die 20 years earlier than live in, say Sweden or France?  You got to be kidding or you're taking this conservative demeanor a tad too far. . .

Some folks (the lucky ones?) lived to a ripe old age back then.
Of course most didn't. Still, I would have taken my chances.
Pretty impressive that you survived the 1950s. No air conditioning?
Wow!

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I wish I had lived in the 50s...........1850s that is.  Rugged individuals
and little intrusive government.  I would gladly accept the hardships
vs, the socialist/PC situation we have today.  BTW, for those of you
who want to point out the medical advances, I would rather die 20 years early than endure a "Big Brother" style government.

JG

Sorry folks. I'm a bit out of sorts today and the 1850s looks
pretty good right now. Anyway, I will try to get back to a
more upbeat tone tomorrow.

Elvis has left the building............

JG

 

[Nords]

Setting aside the gender politics this raises, I can think of a major way American families were better off in the 1950s: back then, it was within the reach of a pretty wide swath of middle class families to have a parent at home with the kids.

Aside from aforementioned death & destruction that occurred in the 1940s to get to the halcyon days of the 1950s, let's also point out that the statistics indicate that was actually "WHITE American families in the middle class or higher". (From "The Two-Income Trap".)

 

[brewer12345]

Aside from aforementioned death & destruction that occurred in the 1940s to get to the halcyon days of the 1950s, let's also point out that the statistics indicate that was actually "WHITE American families in the middle class or higher".  (From "The Two-Income Trap".)

Last I checked, most middle class 'Merkin families in the 1950s were white by definition. I thought that went without saying.

 

[Texas Proud]

Setting aside the gender politics this raises, I can think of a major way American families were better off in the 1950s: back then, it was within the reach of a pretty wide swath of middle class families to have a parent at home with the kids.  How many couples with kids you think manage it today?  DW and I do this, but it is a significant sacrifice that we are only able to make due to my earning ability and some consumption-related sacrifices.  We know many couples for whom this is not a possibility.

I think it is STILL in the range of reality for one parent to stay home.... here where I work the majority of the couples have one spouse as a stay at home parent. The thing is you need to reduce your level of spending... live in a smaller house, do less things that cost money etc... it is being done by a lot of people.

But, that does not address all of the single parent family homes that are out there... some by divorce and a lot by unwed mothers...

 

[razztazz]

I think it is STILL in the range of reality for one parent to stay home....

This means it is NOT very do-able. It is a fringe possibility
manageable by only a few.

The thing is you need to reduce your level of spending... live in a smaller house, do less things that cost money etc... it is being done by a lot of people.

So, then where is the progress of the last 50 years?

But, that does not address all of the single parent family homes that are out there... some by divorce and a lot by unwed mothers

Yep

 

[justin]

I currently have a stay at home wife, and it isn't that bad. My income is right around the national median. I want her to work so I can reach FIRE earlier though. Her working will increase our savings rate by 150%-200% depending on how much uncle sam gets his greedy hands on my money.

 

[Nords]

I want her to work so I can reach FIRE earlier though.

Sounds like she's already reached FIRE! Er, well, as long as you keep working...

 

[laurence]

DW just mentioned she wants to "explore" the possibility of being a stay at home mom before we have the next kid. And we just broke even on her graduate degree.

We think we are going to start "trying" in two years, so until then, both the FIRE path and the "get ready for one income" path are on the same road. But our household income is almost triple the median, so I too believe this choice is a luxury for the few.

 

[Texas Proud]

This means it is NOT very do-able. It is a fringe possibility
manageable by only a few.

So, then where is the progress of the last 50 years?

Razz,

What I am saying is that it is doable for a lot more people than they think... It is that today's society says we should have this and that etc. etc. which cost a lot of money. You do not have to have them. Why buy your kids a cell phone? Most everybody on this board grew up just fine without owning a cell phone... Why have cable TV at $50 to $100 per month... we only had 3 to 5 channels... Why have an SUV and maybe two other cars, a big boat, a big house, maybe a vacation home or timeshare.. I can go on and on of why people think they have to have two incomes, but most people on this board do not think this way...

I am not saying that you should have a stay at home parent, just that it is a lot more doable than most people think. You might not be able to retire early and money is tight, but it is there.

Texas...

 

[razztazz]

Razz,

What I am saying is that it is doable for a lot more people than they think...

OK. THAT I can agree with. Yes, MOST people just sort of bend over and take it without looking at what ELSE could work for them

 

[moghopper]

We think we are going to start "trying" in two years

Don't forget to practice.

 

[laurence]

Don't forget to practice.

Oh yeah! I've gotten really good at begging!

 

[brewer12345]

DW just mentioned she wants to "explore" the possibility of being a stay at home mom before we have the next kid.  And we just broke even on her graduate degree. 

We think we are going to start "trying" in two years, so until then, both the FIRE path and the "get ready for one income" path are on the same road.  But our household income is almost triple the median, so I too believe this choice is a luxury for the few. 

Laurence, I don't know how feasible this is for your DW, but when it became clear that my DW was going to be staying home at some point, she set up her own business. She only sees a couple of clients a week and grosses $5 to 7k a year, so this isn't a big money maker at the moment. However, it keeps her options open by keeping her active in her profession and gives her something to put on her resume if she ever needs to do so. Since my DW is more extroverted than I, it also helps her with being social.

 

[laurence]

Laurence, I don't know how feasible this is for your DW, but when it became clear that my DW was going to be staying home at some point, she set up her own business. She only sees a couple of clients a week and grosses $5 to 7k a year, so this isn't a big money maker at the moment. However, it keeps her options open by keeping her active in her profession and gives her something to put on her resume if she ever needs to do so. Since my DW is more extroverted than I, it also helps her with being social.

On the same page! Her work is often outsourced/consultant, and we are also trying to dip our toe into real estate/rental properties. We are hoping she can do both from home, bring in a similar amount as you mentioned above.

 

[brewer12345]

On the same page!  Her work is often outsourced/consultant, and we are also trying to dip our toe into real estate/rental properties.  We are hoping she can do both from home, bring in a similar amount as you mentioned above.

I would probably hold off on the rental properties. The nice thing about consulting is that you can make it go away if you need to. It is considerably harder to make your rental-related tasks go away.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I would probably hold off on the rental properties.  The nice thing about consulting is that you can make it go away if you need to.  It is considerably harder to make your rental-related tasks go away.

I've done both, and while I agree with the above post, I would still opt
for the rental properties. You don't have to sell your services and you have a lot
more control over the results.

JG