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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:26 PM   #21
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

I would not go live in the 50s. Not even if you paid me. Those who do, well, there are actuarial tables to take care of that.

I would argue that many could be single career families if they were willing to live "50s style". Most wouldn't want to, even if that were presented to them. I have continually volunteered myself to stay home, but DW isn't buying it. :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
The house size of the '50s was in the 1500 foot range, now about 2300 ft. The '50s usually ONE car, today maybe three or four...
You're generous!

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/5-15-01askeds.html
1400 Square Feet in 1970
2200 Square Feet in 2005

Also, Mother Jones, but you'd figure they're worried about "excess"
http://www.motherjones.com/news/exhi...3/exhibit.html
"Since 1950, the average new house has increased by 1,247 sq. ft. Meanwhile, the average household has shrunk by 1 person."

http://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/s...medavgsqft.pdf
1973 Avg:1660 Median:1525
2004 Avg:2349 Median:2140

Houses are larger, fewer people are living in them, they're better insulated...
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:31 PM   #22
 
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by moghopper

Houses are larger, fewer people are living in them, they're better insulated...
This kind of stuff doesn't correlate with happiness or a good life.
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:32 PM   #23
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart
This kind of stuff doesn't correlate with happiness or a good life.
Good, because I wasn't talking about happiness or a good life.

NEXT?
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:33 PM   #24
 
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

I'm curious -- what, then, is your point?
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:40 PM   #25
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart
I'm curious -- what, then, is your point?
My response was to reply #13, by "Texas Proud". I'm essentially agreeing with his point, which is summarized by his last sentence: "The middle class of yesteryear are the 'poor' of today." It is difficult to compare eras, but I say that those who are fond of yesteryear have forgotten all the advances in the standard of living.

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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:42 PM   #26
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Mog, what do we expect from a 35 year old?

You weren't there in the 50's! :P
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:43 PM   #27
 
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Perhaps you can be fond of yesteryear because of the quaity of life, which has little to do with the standard of living except in the case of escaping true poverty.
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 04:44 PM   #28
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper
Mog, what do we expect from a 35 year old?

You weren't there in the 50's! :P
True enough. I wouldn't dream of robbing anyone of their childhood! :
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 05:26 PM   #29
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by moghopper
I would not go live in the 50s.* Not even if you paid me.* Those who do, well, there are actuarial tables to take care of that.

I would argue that many could be single career families if they were willing to live "50s style".* Most wouldn't want to, even if that were presented to them.* I have continually volunteered myself to stay home, but DW isn't buying it.* *:

You're generous!

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/5-15-01askeds.html
1400 Square Feet in 1970
2200 Square Feet in 2005

Also, Mother Jones, but you'd figure they're worried about "excess"
http://www.motherjones.com/news/exhi...3/exhibit.html
"Since 1950, the average new house has increased by 1,247 sq. ft. Meanwhile, the average household has shrunk by 1 person."

http://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/s...medavgsqft.pdf
1973 Avg:1660* Median:1525
2004 Avg:2349* Median:2140

Houses are larger, fewer people are living in them, they're better insulated...
I wish I had lived in the 50s...........1850s that is. Rugged individuals
and little intrusive government. I would gladly accept the hardships
vs, the socialist/PC situation we have today. BTW, for those of you
who want to point out the medical advances, I would rather die 20 years early than endure a "Big Brother" style government.

JG
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 05:50 PM   #30
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Neither the 1850s nor the 1950s have much appeal for me, but to each his own...
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 06:51 PM   #31
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
I say that those who are fond of yesteryear have forgotten all the advances in the standard of living.
Two words: Modern Dentistry.
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 06:52 PM   #32
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Two more: toilet paper (and/or indoor plumbing...)
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 07:01 PM   #33
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
Two words: Modern Dentistry.
Spot on, Caroline. When I saw David McCollough, author of 1776, he was asked what would our forefathers think of us? He replied" They'd think we were weak." He mentioned their teeth which were usually rotting. Ever wonder why in those great paintings of Washington, Jefferson, etc. aren't smiling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
I wish I had lived in the 50s...........1850s that is. Rugged individuals
and little intrusive government. I would gladly accept the hardships
vs, the socialist/PC situation we have today. BTW, for those of you
who want to point out the medical advances, I would rather die 20 years early than endure a "Big Brother" style government.

JG


Bye Bye! JG.. I lived thru the 1950s. I don't believe we had air conditioning in my deep south house until I left. To even think of the 1850s is scary. Did they have aspirin then? You would rather die 20 years earlier than live in, say Sweden or France? You got to be kidding or you're taking this conservative demeanor a tad too far. . .
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 07:06 PM   #34
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
Spot on, Caroline.* When I saw David McCollough, author of 1776, he was asked what would our forefathers think of us?* He replied" They'd think we were weak."* He mentioned their teeth which were usually rotting.* Ever wonder why in those great paintings of Washington, Jefferson, etc. aren't smiling?* Bye Bye!* JG.. I lived thru the 1950s. I don't believe we had air conditioning in my deep south house until I left.* *To even think of the 1850s is scary.* Did they have aspirin then?* You would rather die 20 years earlier than live in, say Sweden or France?* You got to be kidding or you're taking this conservative demeanor a tad too far. . .
Some folks (the lucky ones?) lived to a ripe old age back then.
Of course most didn't. Still, I would have taken my chances.
Pretty impressive that you survived the 1950s. No air conditioning?
Wow!

JG
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 07:16 PM   #35
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
I wish I had lived in the 50s...........1850s that is.* Rugged individuals
and little intrusive government.* I would gladly accept the hardships
vs, the socialist/PC situation we have today.* BTW, for those of you
who want to point out the medical advances, I would rather die 20 years early than endure a "Big Brother" style government.

JG
Sorry folks. I'm a bit out of sorts today and the 1850s looks
pretty good right now. Anyway, I will try to get back to a
more upbeat tone tomorrow.

Elvis has left the building............

JG
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-12-2005, 09:21 PM   #36
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Setting aside the gender politics this raises, I can think of a major way American families were better off in the 1950s: back then, it was within the reach of a pretty wide swath of middle class families to have a parent at home with the kids.
Aside from aforementioned death & destruction that occurred in the 1940s to get to the halcyon days of the 1950s, let's also point out that the statistics indicate that was actually "WHITE American families in the middle class or higher". (From "The Two-Income Trap".)
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-13-2005, 07:02 AM   #37
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Aside from aforementioned death & destruction that occurred in the 1940s to get to the halcyon days of the 1950s, let's also point out that the statistics indicate that was actually "WHITE American families in the middle class or higher".* (From "The Two-Income Trap".)
Last I checked, most middle class 'Merkin families in the 1950s were white by definition. I thought that went without saying.
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-13-2005, 11:45 AM   #38
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Setting aside the gender politics this raises, I can think of a major way American families were better off in the 1950s: back then, it was within the reach of a pretty wide swath of middle class families to have a parent at home with the kids.* How many couples with kids you think manage it today?* DW and I do this, but it is a significant sacrifice that we are only able to make due to my earning ability and some consumption-related sacrifices.* We know many couples for whom this is not a possibility.
I think it is STILL in the range of reality for one parent to stay home.... here where I work the majority of the couples have one spouse as a stay at home parent. The thing is you need to reduce your level of spending... live in a smaller house, do less things that cost money etc... it is being done by a lot of people.

But, that does not address all of the single parent family homes that are out there... some by divorce and a lot by unwed mothers...
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-13-2005, 12:08 PM   #39
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

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I think it is STILL in the range of reality for one parent to stay home....
This means it is NOT very do-able. It is a fringe possibility
manageable by only a few.

Quote:
The thing is you need to reduce your level of spending... live in a smaller house, do less things that cost money etc... it is being done by a lot of people.
So, then where is the progress of the last 50 years?

Quote:
But, that does not address all of the single parent family homes that are out there... some by divorce and a lot by unwed mothers
Yep
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy
Old 09-13-2005, 12:29 PM   #40
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Re: The Recovery and the Ultra Wealthy

I currently have a stay at home wife, and it isn't that bad. My income is right around the national median. I want her to work so I can reach FIRE earlier though. Her working will increase our savings rate by 150%-200% depending on how much uncle sam gets his greedy hands on my money.
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