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Old 02-15-2008, 10:30 AM   #21
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Blow'd up real good...
Just love the overalls on the left - relaxed fit and the dog hair doesn't show as bad on the lighter shades.

Can't wait for the Salvation Army sidewalk sales.

heh heh heh - And to think we actually got paid by the taxpayer for some of that fun stuff - of course we we were steely eyed serious rocketmen at the time!
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:30 PM   #22
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I wonder if it's smarter and cheaper to just let it fall. Less space junk. The chances of it hitting anything important are pretty small.

I wonder how the expected fallout compares with the amount of fallout from the space shuttle.
What are you some kind of pinko? Our stuff doesn't just fall, we have to shoot it down.

About space junk, I don't really know how you shoot down something on orbit to bring it down. It's not like an airplane -- stuff that's in orbit stays in orbit, something about Keplerian laws, unless you give it enough delta v to change its orbit and bring it down into the atmosphere to increase its drag.

So if you blow it up. some of the chunks will get the right delta v, some will not, and others may go into higher orbit. That's what happened with the Chinese shot. I have a sneaking suspicion that this has more to do with (1) showing'em we can shoot at something too and (2) making sure whatever comes down is so messed up it can't be reverse engineered by the bad guys.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:16 PM   #23
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I wonder if it's smarter and cheaper to just let it fall. Less space junk. The chances of it hitting anything important are pretty small.
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I'm sure a piece of it will fall on my house. Guess I need to check my homeowner's policy for space junk.
T-Al that's just plain mean ...

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Old 02-15-2008, 06:18 PM   #24
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About space junk, I don't really know how you shoot down something on orbit to bring it down. It's not like an airplane -- stuff that's in orbit stays in orbit, something about Keplerian laws, unless you give it enough delta v to change its orbit and bring it down into the atmosphere to increase its drag.

So if you blow it up. some of the chunks will get the right delta v, some will not, and others may go into higher orbit. That's what happened with the Chinese shot.
It seems sketchy to me too. They are saying the danger is that the 1000 pounds of hydrazine fuel could cause problems if it makes it back to earth and the tank is ruptured. How is this different from all the other toxic waste we have sitting around already scattered on the surface of the earth, ready to cause environmental disasters if the containers rupture? Well, I know the answer: this is more publicly visible.

When I was little I used to think the solution to our toxic waste problem was to fly it up into space and blow it up. Maybe this will be the start of GWB's new plan to solve our environmental issues.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:48 AM   #25
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Hydrazine is really, really nasty stuff, emergency responders are told not to give mouth to mouth resuscitation to people suspected of inhaling it. The orbit is decaying rapidly, and most of the debris should continue heading down. The SM-3 won't have an explosive warhead, rather, the kinetic energy of the strike will be enough to pulverize the satellite.

The chance of the bird hitting anything politically important is small (75% of the surface is water, after all) but I don't think any country is going to appreciate us dropping a thousand pounds of mega-toxic slush anywhere in their country, no matter how remote. Since the heating systems - along with everything else - failed on the thing the hydrazine is a solid block of ice, which will keep the metal tank around it cool for the makings of a perfect re-entry vehicle.

I do suspect the chance for target practice was a factor.
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Old 02-16-2008, 05:55 AM   #26
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The SM-3 won't have an explosive warhead, rather, the kinetic energy of the strike will be enough to pulverize the satellite.
Fair enough on the hydrazine, but I'm not sure there's much difference between an explosive warhead and the kinetic energy of a collision at those closing speeds. LEO velocities are around 8 km/s, say the interceptor is traveling at another 4-5 km/s, and depending on the angle of collision you could easily have over 10 km/s. Doesn't take a lot of mass for the m*v^2 to get really large. One of the shuttles came back years ago with a windshiled that had a small crater in it, close to shattering. Turned out it was a collision with a small paint chip on orbit.
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Old 02-16-2008, 11:57 AM   #27
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It's pretty cool, ain't it! Hopefully the first one will score a direct hit, and hopefully they have an HD camera strapped to a high altitude plane of some sort taking good footage we can all watch on youtube!
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:22 PM   #28
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It's pretty cool, ain't it! Hopefully the first one will score a direct hit, and hopefully they have an HD camera strapped to a high altitude plane of some sort taking good footage we can all watch on youtube!
I'm sure they will have some type of high quality video. I'm also sure that if they do the intercept at night, anyone within view will be able to get a home video from their back yard. I still remember watching pieces of Skylab break up and re-enter.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:12 AM   #29
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I'm sure they will have some type of high quality video. I'm also sure that if they do the intercept at night, anyone within view will be able to get a home video from their back yard. I still remember watching pieces of Skylab break up and re-enter.
No one's ever offered me a tour and they just won't talk about it, but after a nasty Space Shuttle launch a decade ago a bunch of "govt/military" cameras on top of the Waianae range were used to check out the heat-shield tiles.

I think there'll be excellent coverage. The only question is whether it'll be coming from the military ("We hit it! Click here to enlist!") or civilian ("Those bums couldn't hit the broad side of a space station!!").
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:17 PM   #30
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No one's ever offered me a tour and they just won't talk about it, but after a nasty Space Shuttle launch a decade ago a bunch of "govt/military" cameras on top of the Waianae range were used to check out the heat-shield tiles.
Waianae range, are those the guys in Maui? There's some Air Force cameras there, but most of the workers are civilians. It's too much of a garden spot to have much chance of being assigned there while on active duty. I never even put it on my dream sheet, why waste a pick you know you won't get?
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:56 PM   #31
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Waianae range, are those the guys in Maui? There's some Air Force cameras there, but most of the workers are civilians. It's too much of a garden spot to have much chance of being assigned there while on active duty. I never even put it on my dream sheet, why waste a pick you know you won't get?
Nah, those guys on Maui are all for scientific research, right? That's their story and they're stickin' to it.

The Waianae go up the western side of Oahu, including through Schofield Barracks, and at the north end there's a tiny little dirt road just south of the west side of Kaena Point that has barbed wire & locked gates all over it. Lotsa radomes up in them there hills.

You're right about the dream sheet. No one ever wanted to send me over to PMRF Barking Sands on Kauai to be the submarine surfer liaison guy, either.
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:05 PM   #32
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You're right about the dream sheet. No one ever wanted to send me over to PMRF Barking Sands on Kauai to be the submarine surfer liaison guy, either.
Oh boy - they never let me fire the rail gun either(not my specialty/no Phd). But now that I'm ER'd with a decent nest egg - I console myself with 'Black Cat' and other top of the line fireworks every 4th.



heh heh heh - 64/65 and getting younger every year!
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:39 PM   #33
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One more thing, is it really necessary to wait until the space shuttle has landed, before taking the shot?
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:36 PM   #34
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One more thing, is it really necessary to wait until the space shuttle has landed, before taking the shot?
You really have a lot of faith in guys like me with access to ordnance and fire control systems, don't you?

If I was a space shuttle astronaut, who'd worked with many naval aviators over the course of my career, I wouldn't even undock until the DoD swore to keep their hands off the triggers.
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:36 PM   #35
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One more thing, is it really necessary to wait until the space shuttle has landed, before taking the shot?
No idea if the orbits/pathes cross - pssssst Thursday, the day after the Shuttle is supposed to land.

heh heh heh - . Dat's what my Google says. 40 to 60 mil - a tad more than I spent for fireworks!
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:21 PM   #36
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Keep your eyes on the sky Nords. Looks like the amateurs have their ears to the ground.

SeeSat-L Feb-08 : USA 193 NOTAM released?
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:33 PM   #37
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Keep your eyes on the sky Nords. Looks like the amateurs have their ears to the ground.
SeeSat-L Feb-08 : USA 193 NOTAM released?
Hey, thanks!

Thursday 4:30 - 7 PM HST with CPA at 5:30. Wonder if we'll be able to see the SM-3 streaking up from Kauai to the west-- never tried to watch one of those from land before.

I wonder if commuters will be able to see the missile contrail during rush hour...

Of course this might be just practice or some other range operations. I thought the shot was supposed to be later this month or even in March. I bet the newspapers will be all over it tomorrow morning, but I'll post this on a local board.
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:37 AM   #38
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You really have a lot of faith in guys like me with access to ordnance and fire control systems, don't you?

If I was a space shuttle astronaut, who'd worked with many naval aviators over the course of my career, I wouldn't even undock until the DoD swore to keep their hands off the triggers.
Had a beautiful view of the space shuttle and the space station last night crossing overhead right after sunset. They flew over the old Navy Roosevelt Roads and Vieques gunnery range. It was a horizon-to-horizon view or, as we used to say when I was in the satellite tracking bidness "hore to hore."

Interesting that we're bringing the shuttle down before taking the shot. I wonder if we've told that to the space station guys who are flying a few degrees behind the shuttle? I can hear the communications now ... "yeah guys, we're bringing the shuttle back, but you'll be fine. Nothing to worry about, just keep your space suit on when you go to sleep... oh, and keep a clean pair of shorts handy."
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:20 PM   #39
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Looks like they moved up the shot to Wednesday night. Itchy trigger finger?

The U.S. Navy likely will make its first attempt to shoot down a faulty spy satellite Wednesday night
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:33 PM   #40
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Maybe the Navy can hold a raffle (which missile makes first impact) as a fund raiser and lower our taxes?
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