The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush

janeeyre · 01-11-2007, 05:14 PM

The other night Bush laid out “ the New Way Forward”. But it seems to rely on past strategies and an Iraqi Government to week to fulfill promises that they have broken in the past. Given the violence in Baghdad and the unreliable Iraqi army, I am not sure that 20,000 more troops will make a difference. However, I do suspect the new general will pursue Sunni radicals, hoping that this will persuade the Shiite-led government to finally reign in Shiite militias. The Iraqi Government must crack down on these extremists. I guess most Americans are skeptical not believing that the Iraqis can achieve political reconciliation. But , what if Maliki fails to deliver, the president appears to have little leverage other than to bring U.S. troops home - and abandon the "victory" in Iraq that he insists is vital to U.S. national security.

01-11-2007, 05:18 PM

I listened to it. It sounded like 'Stay the course' to me.

Pass the war onto the next President and kill another couple thousand American Troops and wound countless others.

It's hard for me to believe that this guy is repeating every mistake that was made in Vietnam.

janeeyre · 01-11-2007, 08:31 PM

Yes, but..

Do you think the Iragi Government can secure their country and maintain their government? Because, it they can't ..... then what?

sgeeeee · 01-12-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeeyre

Yes, but..

Do you think the Iragi Government can secure their country and maintain their government? Because, it they can't ..... then what?

Then they will have death, destruction and chaos. . . Oh . . . wait a minute. That's what they have now. The difference is that now the death, destruction and chaos involves US troops. If we were not there, it would not.

Cattusbabe · 01-12-2007, 12:27 AM

Breaking news. Now you can be sent Back to the warzone repeatedly since the Pentagon abandons active-duty time limit. That sucks.

Brat · 01-12-2007, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeeyre

Do you think the Iragi Government can secure their country and maintain their government? Because, it they can't ..... then what?

Bush's team should have considered that before they lied us into this mess.

Iraq and others in the region want us out, but even they are afraid of what will happen if they get what they ask for. IMHO the promise of US departure in the near term will be the only way the actors in the region will resolve their differences. Right now we are a handy scape goat.

Frankly I would tell the Iraqi government that we have done all we can, we won't be a party to their religious war.

ChrisC · 01-12-2007, 08:47 AM

The Bush administration has a new fallback strategy: blame and run.

The administration must now realize that this might be be an unwinnable conflict. (In my view, it is, in fact, unwinnable because of all the eggregious strategic and tactical military and political mistakes we made in not winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, immediately after we became an occupational force in Iraq, which resulted in formenting the insurgency and sectarian/civil war and now utter lawlessness.) And if you are not winning the war against the insurgency, you are losing the war. Isn't that the lesson of Vietnam we did not learn from the French? Draws go to the insurgents, not the occupational forces. And these kill ratios of the enemy have no relevance when battling an enemy that recognizes it has the capacity to incur exponentially more causalities than the occupational forces -- Westmorland got it all wrong and we're still getting it wrong in Iraq too.

There is a very remote possibility that a surge could work, if all the stars are aligned right: we tactically wipe out the lawlessness and restore security and peace in the major hotspots (without in turn formenting more hatred for us) and the Iraqi political leadership meets every benchmark and goal we have established for them; i.e. installing capable Iraqi military and police leadership, interceding to halt the sectarian violence, bringing the Sunnis under the political tent, and backstopping our efforts to prevent foreign fighters from crossing the borders into Iraqi.

This aint gonna happen, as some of these folks must know. Why do we believe we can rely on an Iraqi administration that can't even execute Saddam without making it a major promotional piece for the Sunni insurgency?

So, what's likely to happen is that this new military tactic of surging troops in Bagdad and other trouble spots will further alienate the Iraqi people, after all, a large majority of them want us out of their country and the recent polls said that the Iraqi people think this surge stuff is stupid. There will be some short term gains, more of our troops will get killed, and eventually the insurgency will come roaring back, and the present Iraqi government will continue to be ineffective but we have to continue to prop it up cause there is no other alternative except splitting the country up. 12 months after the surge, when we realized it has failed, the Bush administration will start the blame game.

We'll blame the Iraqis, we'll blame our military leadership (yeah why didn't you stop us from engaging in our delusional approach) and we'll blame Syria, Iran and Al-Queda. And then after we've buried more of our troops, the next Administration will come into office and begin the process of withdrawing troops, blaming the Bush Administration.

That's the plan, right?

F M All · 01-12-2007, 09:34 AM

Chris, that is not the plan. The plan is to have Congress fight the new strategy, so when it fails the failure is down to the Dems.

USK Coastie · 01-12-2007, 10:22 AM

Perhaps if the %^$%$%^ media would show the bodies of people jumping from the WTC while it was burning as often as it shows our troups under attack in Iraq the American public would have a different attitude. These videos exist but the media has decided that they are "too tramuatic " for the american public.

Perhaps if the %^&*%$^ media would portay the fumendalist muslems in the light that they want too kill ALL infedels as they has repeatedly stated, the US public would wake up to the threat that we are facing from these people. Hello any one home?? When a muslem says he wants to kill you for being an infidel and not accepting Islam he is NOT kidding he is DEADLY serious.

We just want the 100 hr wars like Gulf War 1. We do not have the wll to fight for the long 30 - 50 year struggle between Fumendalist Islam and the rest of the world that is upon us. I'm going to open a mail order businness selling Korans to US citizens 'cause their gonna need them when they they are given the choice to convet to Islam or die.

If bringing home the troups would end this struggle, bring them home. All it will do is set the stage for the next round, as well as, kill millions of people in the middle east. The blood bath if we leave without stablizing Iraq will make Darfor, Rawanda, and Cambidia look like a minor traffic accident.

Yea, Yea I know rewarmed dominoes al la Vietnam. Ask those we abandoned in SE Asia adout the millions who died because we cut and ran. Millions more will die if we do it again.

For those of you who are not willing to fight for freedom look at your selves in the mirror and say not my problem when city in this country dissapears in a radioactive cloud suppled by our freinds from the "Religion of Peace" . And dont blame Bush, blame yourselves for not having the conviction to fight for our freedom.

01-12-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USK Coastie

Perhaps if the %^$%$%^ media would show the bodies of people jumping from the WTC while it was burning as often as it shows our troups under attack in Iraq the American public would have a different attitude. .

You are as sadly misinformed as possible. The Iraq war has nothing to do with the WTC attack.

brewer12345 · 01-12-2007, 10:38 AM

Karl Rove, is that you?

lets-retire · 01-12-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat

You are as sadly misinformed as possible. The Iraq war has nothing to do with the WTC attack.

Orginally you're correct, but as most situation it has morphed. Who do you think is encouraging the instability in the region, Al-Quedia.

Brewer--If you can't add anything but name calling, maybe you should grow up, go away, or educate yourself so you can act like a grown-up.

F M All · 01-12-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire

Orginally you're correct, but as most situation it has morphed. Who do you think is encouraging the instability in the region, Al-Quedia.

Brewer--If you can't add anything but name calling, maybe you should grow up, go away, or educate yourself so you can act like a grown-up.

Coming from {SOMEONE} who can't write a proper sentence or even spell Al-Qaeda that is rich.

You need to take a dose of your own medicine.

N.B. calling you {SOMEONE} is name calling, I probably should explain that to you.

MODERATOR EDIT: F M All, please try not to live up to your name)

brewer12345 · 01-12-2007, 11:25 AM

And cue the moderators...

FinanceDude · 01-12-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat

You are as sadly misinformed as possible. The Iraq war has nothing to do with the WTC attack.

Agree..............wonder what will happen the next time the US suffers a terrorist attack? Finger-pointing, name-calling, hand-wringing......or all of the above?

Regardless of any actions we are taking home or aborad, we will have another terrorist attack in my lifetime............I think we all know that.............

brewer12345 · 01-12-2007, 12:02 PM

frayne · 01-12-2007, 12:03 PM

You can't impose democracy on a country and culture that neither knows what it is or wants it. A lesson we fail to understand repeatedly. Iraq is country with three warring factions. Nothing we will do is going to change whatever endpoint is in the future. For my two cents it is time to get out of Dodge.

Retire Soon · 01-12-2007, 12:16 PM

Many on this board must have seen the soldier who was interviewed on CBS last night. The father of an infant was on his way to serve his third tour of Iraq. When our men and women went to Vietnam, one year was the maximum, unless they volunteered for an additional year. I believe that we should take the Iraq Special Committee's recommendation and withdraw from Iraq by early 2008. No man or woman should have to spend more than a year over there.

FinanceDude · 01-12-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frayne

You can't impose democracy on a country and culture that neither knows what it is or wants it. A lesson we fail to understand repeatedly. Iraq is country with three warring factions. Nothing we will do is going to change whatever endpoint is in the future. For my two cents it is time to get out of Dodge.

Agree.......those folks have been fighting for thousands of years. It's pretty easy to call us "Zionists" and "Crusaders".............they're still pissed at the "conversion to Christianity at the end of the sword" their ancestors dealt with during the Crusades......................long grudges last forever in that part of the world..............

frayne · 01-12-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retire Soon

Many on this board must have seen the soldier who was interviewed on CBS last night. The father of an infant was on his way to serve his third tour of Iraq. When our men and women went to Vietnam, one year was the maximum, unless they volunteered for an additional year. I believe that we should take the Iraq Special Committee's recommendation and withdraw from Iraq by early 2008. No man or woman should have to spend more than a year over there.

I spent a year in Nam as a grunt with the 1st Cav. If told or knew that I would have had to do two or three more tours this boy would have seriously thought about Canada as a vialbe option.

01-11-2007, 05:14 PM	#1
janeeyre Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 131	The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush The other night Bush laid out “ the New Way Forward”. But it seems to rely on past strategies and an Iraqi Government to week to fulfill promises that they have broken in the past. Given the violence in Baghdad and the unreliable Iraqi army, I am not sure that 20,000 more troops will make a difference. However, I do suspect the new general will pursue Sunni radicals, hoping that this will persuade the Shiite-led government to finally reign in Shiite militias. The Iraqi Government must crack down on these extremists. I guess most Americans are skeptical not believing that the Iraqis can achieve political reconciliation. But , what if Maliki fails to deliver, the president appears to have little leverage other than to bring U.S. troops home - and abandon the "victory" in Iraq that he insists is vital to U.S. national security.

01-11-2007, 05:18 PM	#2
Cut-Throat Guest Posts: n/a	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush I listened to it. It sounded like 'Stay the course' to me. Pass the war onto the next President and kill another couple thousand American Troops and wound countless others. It's hard for me to believe that this guy is repeating every mistake that was made in Vietnam.

01-11-2007, 08:31 PM	#3
janeeyre Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 131	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush Yes, but.. Do you think the Iragi Government can secure their country and maintain their government? Because, it they can't ..... then what?

01-12-2007, 12:27 AM	#5
Cattusbabe Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 381	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush Breaking news. Now you can be sent Back to the warzone repeatedly since the Pentagon abandons active-duty time limit. That sucks. __________________ Any day your on this side of the grass is a good day.

01-12-2007, 08:47 AM	#7
ChrisC Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 472	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush The Bush administration has a new fallback strategy: blame and run. The administration must now realize that this might be be an unwinnable conflict. (In my view, it is, in fact, unwinnable because of all the eggregious strategic and tactical military and political mistakes we made in not winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, immediately after we became an occupational force in Iraq, which resulted in formenting the insurgency and sectarian/civil war and now utter lawlessness.) And if you are not winning the war against the insurgency, you are losing the war. Isn't that the lesson of Vietnam we did not learn from the French? Draws go to the insurgents, not the occupational forces. And these kill ratios of the enemy have no relevance when battling an enemy that recognizes it has the capacity to incur exponentially more causalities than the occupational forces -- Westmorland got it all wrong and we're still getting it wrong in Iraq too. There is a very remote possibility that a surge could work, if all the stars are aligned right: we tactically wipe out the lawlessness and restore security and peace in the major hotspots (without in turn formenting more hatred for us) and the Iraqi political leadership meets every benchmark and goal we have established for them; i.e. installing capable Iraqi military and police leadership, interceding to halt the sectarian violence, bringing the Sunnis under the political tent, and backstopping our efforts to prevent foreign fighters from crossing the borders into Iraqi. This aint gonna happen, as some of these folks must know. Why do we believe we can rely on an Iraqi administration that can't even execute Saddam without making it a major promotional piece for the Sunni insurgency? So, what's likely to happen is that this new military tactic of surging troops in Bagdad and other trouble spots will further alienate the Iraqi people, after all, a large majority of them want us out of their country and the recent polls said that the Iraqi people think this surge stuff is stupid. There will be some short term gains, more of our troops will get killed, and eventually the insurgency will come roaring back, and the present Iraqi government will continue to be ineffective but we have to continue to prop it up cause there is no other alternative except splitting the country up. 12 months after the surge, when we realized it has failed, the Bush administration will start the blame game. We'll blame the Iraqis, we'll blame our military leadership (yeah why didn't you stop us from engaging in our delusional approach) and we'll blame Syria, Iran and Al-Queda. And then after we've buried more of our troops, the next Administration will come into office and begin the process of withdrawing troops, blaming the Bush Administration. That's the plan, right? __________________ Someday this war's gonna end . . .

01-12-2007, 09:34 AM	#8
F M All Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 143	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush Chris, that is not the plan. The plan is to have Congress fight the new strategy, so when it fails the failure is down to the Dems. __________________ nil illegitimus carborundum

01-12-2007, 10:22 AM	#9
USK Coastie Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 329	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush Perhaps if the %^$%$%^ media would show the bodies of people jumping from the WTC while it was burning as often as it shows our troups under attack in Iraq the American public would have a different attitude. These videos exist but the media has decided that they are "too tramuatic " for the american public. Perhaps if the %^&*%$^ media would portay the fumendalist muslems in the light that they want too kill ALL infedels as they has repeatedly stated, the US public would wake up to the threat that we are facing from these people. Hello any one home?? When a muslem says he wants to kill you for being an infidel and not accepting Islam he is NOT kidding he is DEADLY serious. We just want the 100 hr wars like Gulf War 1. We do not have the wll to fight for the long 30 - 50 year struggle between Fumendalist Islam and the rest of the world that is upon us. I'm going to open a mail order businness selling Korans to US citizens 'cause their gonna need them when they they are given the choice to convet to Islam or die. If bringing home the troups would end this struggle, bring them home. All it will do is set the stage for the next round, as well as, kill millions of people in the middle east. The blood bath if we leave without stablizing Iraq will make Darfor, Rawanda, and Cambidia look like a minor traffic accident. Yea, Yea I know rewarmed dominoes al la Vietnam. Ask those we abandoned in SE Asia adout the millions who died because we cut and ran. Millions more will die if we do it again. For those of you who are not willing to fight for freedom look at your selves in the mirror and say not my problem when city in this country dissapears in a radioactive cloud suppled by our freinds from the "Religion of Peace" . And dont blame Bush, blame yourselves for not having the conviction to fight for our freedom. __________________ Greetings from the Socialist States of Amerika. Maybe its time for pitchforks and torches for the weasels in Washington from BOTH Parties

01-12-2007, 10:38 AM	#11
brewer12345 Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,249	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush Karl Rove, is that you? __________________ “When you realize that you are one of the rare few who observe moral principles in their relationships with others, there is a temptation to sink into amorality, not out of conviction or pleasure but simply to avoid further pain, because there is no greater suffering than being an angel in hell, whereas a devil feels at home wherever he goes.” – Martin Page, How I Became Stupid

01-12-2007, 11:25 AM	#14
brewer12345 Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,249	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush And cue the moderators... __________________ “When you realize that you are one of the rare few who observe moral principles in their relationships with others, there is a temptation to sink into amorality, not out of conviction or pleasure but simply to avoid further pain, because there is no greater suffering than being an angel in hell, whereas a devil feels at home wherever he goes.” – Martin Page, How I Became Stupid

01-12-2007, 12:03 PM	#17
frayne Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 428	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush You can't impose democracy on a country and culture that neither knows what it is or wants it. A lesson we fail to understand repeatedly. Iraq is country with three warring factions. Nothing we will do is going to change whatever endpoint is in the future. For my two cents it is time to get out of Dodge.

01-12-2007, 12:16 PM	#18
Retire Soon Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 535	Re: The speech - "The New Way Forward "--by President Bush Many on this board must have seen the soldier who was interviewed on CBS last night. The father of an infant was on his way to serve his third tour of Iraq. When our men and women went to Vietnam, one year was the maximum, unless they volunteered for an additional year. I believe that we should take the Iraq Special Committee's recommendation and withdraw from Iraq by early 2008. No man or woman should have to spend more than a year over there. __________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately... and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." --Henry David Thoreau