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12-30-2012, 03:38 PM
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#21
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,056
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Read the book first, he makes excellent points and has lots of data to support the fact that the most long term successful companies are those with the best CEO's, and they come from a wide cross-section of industries, including an airline, a steel company, companies with no unions and companies with strong unions.
Having determined in his opinion that the deciding factor in the great companies was their CEO, then he focused on the management style and culture of the companies.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
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12-30-2012, 03:41 PM
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#22
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,589
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That wasn't the intent, but you do have a point. I saw items on the list that apply to 'real life' and even post-work era folk like us, not just the still working class.
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12-30-2012, 03:49 PM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Before the holiday break, I had to sit down with one of the many layers of management above me to chat about how things are going and any obvious things I saw that could be improved. At the end of the discussion, I was asked if I had ever considered going into management. I suspect I slightly offended the asker of the question, but my response amounted to "hell no!"
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"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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12-30-2012, 04:05 PM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Before the holiday break, I had to sit down with one of the many layers of management above me to chat about how things are going and any obvious things I saw that could be improved. At the end of the discussion, I was asked if I had ever considered going into management. I suspect I slightly offended the asker of the question, but my response amounted to "hell no!"
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Might give you a new perspective...but if your mind is made up.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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12-30-2012, 04:11 PM
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#25
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Might give you a new perspective...but if your mind is made up.
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At my present employer, an entry level manager has a lot of things to do, limited resources with which to do them, and many layers above them second guessing what they have done and countermanding previous orders. There is also a strong expectation tat you will work a lot of uncompensated overtime and regularly, publicly and loudly sing the company fight song. No thanks. Where I am at the moment fits me, and I have the ability to execute on mission critical tasks requiring my very rare skillset with minimal management help. They seem to be happy, and I can live with it since I mostly get left alone to get the job done. At this point in my career, I don't want any extra headaches or hours worked, especially at the rate of pay they are prepared to offer.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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12-30-2012, 05:08 PM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
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Most first level supervisors work a lot of un compensated time. Striving to get another level up so they can work even more. Maybe one out of 25 do. Far better way to spend your time is planning FIRE rather than chasing the rainbow.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
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12-30-2012, 05:26 PM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Most first level supervisors work a lot of un compensated time. Striving to get another level up so they can work even more. Maybe one out of 25 do. Far better way to spend your time is planning FIRE rather than chasing the rainbow.
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Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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12-30-2012, 05:56 PM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Read the book first, he makes excellent points and has lots of data to support the fact that the most long term successful companies are those with the best CEO's, and they come from a wide cross-section of industries, including an airline, a steel company, companies with no unions and companies with strong unions.
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I was actually talking about the comments in this thread.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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12-30-2012, 05:59 PM
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#29
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...
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Obviously you were not tempted to increase your lifestyle to match your management position. Most every one I saw at work did with a few exceptions. Even the young new hires drove more expensive cars than I did.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
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12-30-2012, 06:09 PM
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#30
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
I was actually talking about the comments in this thread.
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oops, my mistake
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
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12-30-2012, 06:17 PM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Obviously you were not tempted to increase your lifestyle to match your management position. Most every one I saw at work did with a few exceptions. Even the young new hires drove more expensive cars than I did.
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Actually I did 'increase our lifestyle' somewhat, but we still practiced LBYM first and foremost. We grasped the meaning of 'the most important things in life aren't things.' We gratefully lived/live better than most, but didn't care to keep up with our contemporaries (all still working BTW). Taking the management path offers options...you don't have to be self-absorbed and heartless like some would like to believe.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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12-30-2012, 06:21 PM
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#32
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...
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In my line of w*rk (physician) earnings go down when you go into management. The quickest way to FIRE is to do as much clinical work as possible, to the exclusion of every other activity. Put yourself on the call schedule one night in four, and work every day in between. With any luck you will be so exhausted you won't have time to spend any money. Just ask Rachel!
But I'm finished with all that now, thank goodness!
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12-30-2012, 06:22 PM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,596
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I'm a complete failure. But don't care.
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I purr therefore I am.
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12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
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#34
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
oops, my mistake
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No prob, I wasn't specific.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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12-30-2012, 07:14 PM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
Is this a joke, or do you mean "accepting responsibility for her failures"? I think the list maker means that people should accept responsibility for their own failures.
I think that's what the list maker meant as well - just am more amused misunderstanding. But really, my gal accepts responsibility for damn near anything around her; has an expansive view of her sphere of influence, and tries to fix it all.
Even that is controversial. Many psychologists feel that laying off one's failures onto circumstance is a good strategy for staying happy and undepressed. Seems to work for politicians and CEOs.
Most of my life I've graded myself on a curve, and a C was satisfactory. Lately I have thought that I might have been able to do better. Still, we all have some narrow passages to steer through, and I suppose we should be gratefuil for not breaking up on the rocks.
Her dad was more a "why didn't you get an A+ instead of just an A kinda guy". positive and negative results, as with most things.
Ha
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12-30-2012, 07:16 PM
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#36
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Taking the management path offers options...you don't have to be self-absorbed and heartless like some would like to believe.
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You must not have worked for the same company as me. I would have described most management at my company as near sociopathic. Calling them self-absorbed and heartless would be too kind.
But not all. I am still friends with two of my managers who are retired. They would agree with my statement as well.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
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12-31-2012, 12:05 AM
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#37
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...
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Nor I, those ESO that increased almost 20 times put me over the "number".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Obviously you were not tempted to increase your lifestyle to match your management position. Most every one I saw at work did with a few exceptions. Even the young new hires drove more expensive cars than I did.
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I drove the same old Ford Tempo for the first 15 years of my management status. We did, however, upgrade our house. Our old one was paid for. We bought the new one with cash. Then we sold the old one. Not too many 'pawns' have the income to do that.
No-one mentioned this part. In some ways it makes anything else you did trivial.
One of the nice perks of management is the ability to further the careers of worthy people. I retired from mega-corp 5+ years ago. I was one of 4 (at the time) middle management people. Just before xmas, I dropped in for the first time in 3 years. Turned out I knew about 1/2 of the employees in my old department. It also turned out that 5 of 6 middle management positions were held by people I had hired and mentored. All were really good people.
You can make a difference, even if you join managemant (as I did) for the bucks.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
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12-31-2012, 12:33 AM
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#38
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 197
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The Success of What ?
Doesn't most society measure one's success with wealth?
I considered myself successful in divorcing two of my ex-wives. Unsuccessful in achieving my ER Goal due to my success in getting out of miserable life that I had in marriage. I'm happy but over work and underpaid.
__________________
The time to take counsel of your fears is before you make an important battle decision. That’s the time to listen to every fear you can imagine! When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead! – General George S. Patton
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12-31-2012, 06:39 AM
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#39
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,318
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I like the list since I meet most of the criteria except for planning and journaling. Shows you can do OK without those attributes. And I suspect kept to do lists for the wrong reason. The management BS is you need them to prioritize but I kept them because I would completely forget stuff otherwise. Practice implemented after I missed an important meeting and had to make up a BS emergency to cover my butt.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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12-31-2012, 06:59 AM
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#40
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 197
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I personally think it's good traits of one's character but hardly doubt The Success Indicator. If one wants to become a successful long distance runner, does having those attributes help. I think not.
What attributes one needs to be happy? Does achieving happiness considered success? Much like no one can tell others how much they need to FIRE.
Success is very subjective. In the eyes of my younger self, I'm a failure. But with two divorces and two career changes, I'm success when I look myself in the mirror. Hate working but happy I'm achieving my savings goals and working toward FIRe without E but hope at least little e (much later than I had planned but hopefully in next 4 to 6 years)
__________________
The time to take counsel of your fears is before you make an important battle decision. That’s the time to listen to every fear you can imagine! When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead! – General George S. Patton
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