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Old 03-04-2008, 10:46 AM   #101
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Unless your car or SUV has bad cylinder rings, you should be able to bring them into the shop and get a tune-up (or a tune up and a head job) that should restore your vehicle's gas mileage and performance. With today's gas prices it's a good way to save gas money and reduce your emissions. (If the rings are bad . . . you can get a full engine overhaul, but the economics of an engine overhaul might suggest buying a new car instead.)

As a society we've decided there are lots of things you must do or can't do. Drive a car, the law requires that you have a license, insurance, follow certain conventions (traffic laws) and wear a seat belt, and you're not legally allowed to drive drunk . . . even though you enjoy the buzz. You're also not legally allowed to smoke in many public places, take up pig farming in a residential neighborhood, or run over to the pharmacist or corner drug dealer and pick up any number of things even if you can afford it and enjoy the idea of being a heroine-addicted pig farmer who smokes.

We restrict people from doing many things because it harms the people around them. Shipping money by the barrel full to other countries isn't a good economic policy and is against the interests of national security. Burning the stuff is responsible for causing the air in southern California to become so polluted that it very literally makes me (and tens of thousands of other people) sick. (Air quality problems forced me to move from California to Washington State.) And there is a broad scientific and political consensus that the greenhouse gases produced by burning the stuff is putting the entire planet at risk.

You may not like it, but there's more than adequate reason to send gas-guzzling cars the way of heroine-addicted pig farmers who smoke.
Are you working for Al Gore??
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:16 AM   #102
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So if Suv's are bad are RV's super bad and what about boats ? Does this make Hell's Angels the real good guys in life ? Just wondering ?
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:50 AM   #103
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So if Suv's are bad are RV's super bad and what about boats ? Does this make Hell's Angels the real good guys in life ? Just wondering ?
Maybe not Hell's Angles, but certainly motorcyclists in general. Bikes use less fuel and even more importantly take up less space in crowded urban settings.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:00 PM   #104
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Let's get back to RVs.........
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:05 PM   #105
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If some one has the money and wants to spend it on gas for a vehicle that is way more than they need i dont see the problem,some people blow their money on more house than they need or any one of many past times,isnt the main reason we are working to make money so we can spend it on some thing that makes us feel good?
My own vice is a sports car that i usually drive 300 miles every Sunday,total waste of money but it sure gives me a lot of pleasure and grin factor and even though its more fuel efficient than a large truck who would be the gas guzzler if the truck only did 50 miles a week compared to my 300+ just for pleasure?
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:35 PM   #106
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If some one has the money and wants to spend it on gas for a vehicle that is way more than they need i dont see the problem,some people blow their money on more house than they need or any one of many past times,isnt the main reason we are working to make money so we can spend it on some thing that makes us feel good?
So true. Art is my weakness (instead of SUVs or McMansions), and with my luck probably some of my collection was made by five year olds working 16 hour days using toxic paints on endangered plant or animal parts. How depressing!
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:49 PM   #107
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Unless your car or SUV has bad cylinder rings, you should be able to bring them into the shop and get a tune-up (or a tune up and a head job) that should restore your vehicle's gas mileage and performance. With today's gas prices it's a good way to save gas money and reduce your emissions. (If the rings are bad . . . you can get a full engine overhaul, but the economics of an engine overhaul might suggest buying a new car instead.)
There is nothing wrong with the car... that is the sticker gas mileage when it was new... and I still get that mileage... also, when they do the emissions tests, they usually do them twice because they are so low for such an old car they don't believe them... so, 17 mpgs is good for that car.. but bad for today's car..




Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity View Post
As a society we've decided there are lots of things you must do or can't do. Drive a car, the law requires that you have a license, insurance, follow certain conventions (traffic laws) and wear a seat belt, and you're not legally allowed to drive drunk . . . even though you enjoy the buzz. You're also not legally allowed to smoke in many public places, take up pig farming in a residential neighborhood, or run over to the pharmacist or corner drug dealer and pick up any number of things even if you can afford it and enjoy the idea of being a heroine-addicted pig farmer who smokes.

We restrict people from doing many things because it harms the people around them. Shipping money by the barrel full to other countries isn't a good economic policy and is against the interests of national security. Burning the stuff is responsible for causing the air in southern California to become so polluted that it very literally makes me (and tens of thousands of other people) sick. (Air quality problems forced me to move from California to Washington State.) And there is a broad scientific and political consensus that the greenhouse gases produced by burning the stuff is putting the entire planet at risk.

You may not like it, but there's more than adequate reason to send gas-guzzling cars the way of heroine-addicted pig farmers who smoke.
yes... many things that are regulated... there are even regulations on width and weight and such without permits...

BUT, who in their right mind is going to tell over 50% of society that they have to get rid of their 7 year old car 'for the good of society'.... it ain't happing...

And who is going to say you can not drive a Corvette with a 6 liter (or 8 liter if they made them) engine because you like to drive them Nope, no politician that is planning on winning the next election... that is why they do not increase gas tax... WAY to much noise from the crowds...
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #108
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Hanging onto an old car as long as you can is probably more environmentally friendly than everyone buying new cars. Make your next car more fuel efficient, but I don't believe you should rush out to replace a good car now. A lot depends on your own situation.

My situation will change next year, so I finally won't need the larger SUV to haul things between my homes, and my daughter will be out of school so I won't be hauling her and her friends to school events. So when I do replace the Pilot, it can be with a smaller vehicle. But I'm not sure what, yet.

I need AWD. I'll be in the mountains and we get enough snow to need it. Last snowfall I had to push a sedan up the hill on my street because they couldn't make it. I could stay home in the snow, but I want to go out skiing in it. Plus, it can be easy to get caught out in snow since you can't stay home every time it's in the forecast.

I also feel I need a 6 cylinder. For a smaller car, 4cy is ok but my 4 cyl CRV didn't do well at all in the mountains, which led to me trading it for my Pilot.

I also want something to haul things around. Doesn't have to be an SUV, a decent sized hatch or wagon would work. I live 30 minutes from any real stores, so I tend to load up when I go in (to limit the number of trips), and renting a truck isn't a great plan for that distance very often.

Hybrids--how well do they work in the mountains? I hear mixed reviews. I don't live near the mountains, I live ON a mountain so most of my drives have long climbs. Will I still have much power after 6 miles almost all uphill, with a 2500 foot gain? Will I get hybrid-like mpg numbers? Hybrids are ideal for city commuter driving, but I'm not so sure about the driving I'd be doing.

I always think about what car I'd get if my car got totalled tomorrow. Right now I'd look at a Mazda CX-9, which really isn't much different than the Pilot, or a Ford Escape. When I look at some of the smaller AWD wagons, they don't do much better in gas mileage, and many are more expensive, so I'm not seeing why I'd get one.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:18 PM   #109
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Oh, here's the bottom line. I have a big ol' GMC full-size 4WD pickup truck because I want one and I can afford it. We also live in a much bigger house than we need for the same reason. We could live in a single-wide and cut our utilities by more than two-thirds. We could cut transportation expenses by making do with one tired Tercel instead of a small Buick and a pickup truck. But we don't want to and we don't have to.

Probably most people on this forum could do likewise if they had to, and they know they could because many if not most have done it. But they don't because they don't want to and they can afford not to. What's the point of working beyond what it takes just to survive if there aren't rewards at the end of the work?
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:21 PM   #110
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So if Suv's are bad are RV's super bad and what about boats ? Does this make Hell's Angels the real good guys in life ? Just wondering ?
Not all boats are bad. I only spent about $15 in gas for all last year while boating (pontoon boat) 2-3 times a week. I do know of boaters/ water skiers spending $150 a weekend for fuel though.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:45 PM   #111
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Art is my weakness
Does Frank know about this "Art" fellow?

You got a cellphone hidden somewhere that we need to dig up?

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Old 03-04-2008, 08:00 PM   #112
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Does Frank know about this "Art" fellow?

You got a cellphone hidden somewhere that we need to dig up?

Hee hee!! Not only does he know my art, he helps me bring art home sometimes.

No cell phones, though once Frank hung art up on my wall right in front of me.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:37 PM   #113
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:39 PM   #114
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Not all boats are bad. I only spent about $15 in gas for all last year while boating (pontoon boat) 2-3 times a week. I do know of boaters/ water skiers spending $150 a weekend for fuel though.
I have a large boat and a SUV to pull it so I'm real bad !
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:57 PM   #115
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Or, maybe some of them were saying that you can not.... Just ignore my last post, please!
Not saying he can't . . . he obviously can and does . . . but there may come a day when tighter regulations preclude the option. Either that or gas prices will, all by themselves, make buying a fuel efficient car a practical as well as political reality.

For when that does happen, here's something else to chew on. As gas prices go up, people who can afford new, gas-efficient cars will sell their used iron and go out and buy a more efficient car. The problem is that people at the bottom end of the economic spectrum, who are least able to afford expensive gas, usually buy their cars used . . .

My own preference for encouraging the development and purchase of fuel efficient cars is a "tax-bate" system that financially penalizes people who buy vehicles that get less than the average fuel efficiency for last year's car sales. The less efficient your the car is, the more taxes you pay (until they become fiscally quite punitive), and those funds are then "rebated" to people who buy cars that get better than 10% over the average efficiency. People can still buy the cars they want that way, but offset their gas-guzzling habit by making fuel efficient vehicles more affordable for others.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:16 PM   #116
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Insanity...

This sounds a bit like (from what I have read) Japan... not sure how the system works, but I read somewhere that once your car is about 6 years old it is almost impossible to keep... probably a tax or something...

SO, they load them up and ship them to Korea and other countries...

Until you make a big huge cube out of the car.... it will likely be driven by someone and be polluting..
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:20 PM   #117
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Drug addicted pigs? Speaking of consumable meat, I believe it's been widely shown that a) methane is many, many times more potent as a greenhouse has than CO2 and b) livestock is producing more greenhouse effect than cars because of this fact. If you are really concerned about global warming, eat less meat, or become a vegetarian. Watching a Prius owner eat a cheeseburger and tut-tut a guy driving an F-150 gets me every time.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:42 PM   #118
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Insanity...

This sounds a bit like (from what I have read) Japan... not sure how the system works, but I read somewhere that once your car is about 6 years old it is almost impossible to keep... probably a tax or something...

SO, they load them up and ship them to Korea and other countries...

Until you make a big huge cube out of the car.... it will likely be driven by someone and be polluting..
They have the same system in Germany to help support their automotive industry. It's a bad thing. There is a huge amount of energy invested in making a vehicle, and sending it to the wrecking yard devalues that investment.

What I was suggesting is a straight sales tax or rebate on new car sales, not a tax on existing vehicles.
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:34 AM   #119
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The less efficient your the car is, the more taxes you pay (until they become fiscally quite punitive), and those funds are then "rebated" to people
This scheme has been proposed here recently and I am strongly opposed to it. It does not in any way take into account usage patterns, so a light user of an inefficient vehicle is penalized while a heavy user of an efficient one is rewarded. In fact a responsible occasional user of a heavy vehicle is penalized and a wasteful frequent user of a lighter vehicle is rewarded. If you want to devise a scheme for providing economic incentives, much better to have one such as very high gas taxes which is at least related to actual usage.
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:20 AM   #120
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Someone did a 'test' (admit that it was only a short distance for each)... but he got the below with a 6 speed:

55MPH = 38MPG
65MPH = 34MPG
75MPH = 31MPG
85MPH = 27MPG
95MPH = 24MPG
105MPH = 21MPG
I'm surprised this "test" was not loudly questioned by the audience of that forum. This "someone" is truly full of it. Even if these numbers are pulled out of thin air, this person simply has no concept of the air drag coefficient. At 105mph, he/she would be lucky to get 15mph.
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