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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 02:38 PM   #21
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Re: The Wab Diet

Google "fish oil cholesterol".

There are roughly 9000 studies. I've read the contents and summaries of about 60. The AHA web site also links some of their studies and recommendations to take it.

So far I havent seen *any* that didnt show a positive effect.

Lots of good individual stories as well. For what those are worth.

There are also a lot of studies and medical opinions with very strong negative feelings about low total carb/high fat diets, but as is the norm theres enough contrary data to let you pick and choose your proof sources.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 04:00 PM   #22
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Re: The Wab Diet

FWIW, I have nothing vested in being right or wrong. I would enjoy being proven wrong since it would mean learning something new.

In any case, here's an abstract to the Danish fish oil study that concludes "... the team observed no significant effects of fish oil on LDL cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, or the concentration of small dense LDL particles, linked to symptoms of heart disease."

http://www.defeatdiabetes.org/Articl...hoil021017.htm
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 04:15 PM   #23
 
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Re: The Wab Diet

Man, this is confusing. Fish oil, Wab diet, Atkins diet,
red rice yeast? What's a fellow to think? My grand parents had bacon and eggs every day, cooked in lard
and lived into their late 80s. What to cut out?
Frappacinos? Slimfast? Burgers? Chips? Dip?
T bones? Booze? I'm tempted to just ignore the whole thing. After all, my ancestors knew nothing about this
and thus never worried about it.

John Galt
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 04:28 PM   #24
 
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Re: The Wab Diet

Quote:
but my preliminary findings are:

carbs: BIG magnitude
exercise: pretty big magnitude
fish oil capsules: lost in the noise
Hey Wap,
Where does genetics fall on this scale?
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 04:41 PM   #25
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Re: The Wab Diet

Quote:
Where does genetics fall on this scale?
It's probably a huge factor, but not one most of us have any control over.

Change what you can, don't sweat what you can't, and argue about the minutia
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 04:47 PM   #26
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Re: The Wab Diet

John -

My fathers father ate grease by the bucket, smoked and lived a long time too. On the other hand, my uncle (by marriage) ate that way too and dropped dead of a heart attack in his early 50's.

Try these:
http://www.americanheart.org/present...tifier=3006624
http://www.oilofpisces.com/cholesterol.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=23820

Wab - that danish study was specifically designed to see if fish oil would help diabetics. It was limited to 42 people over a 4 week period, tested vs a control of corn oil. It did show some improvements in triglycerides but they didnt note any improvements in LDL/HDL ratios. In my opinion (I'm not a doctor and I dont play one on tv either), a study of 42 people that have a pre-existing health problem for a month isnt very comprehensive.

The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine issued the following statement: ( http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/ )
"PCRM has been speaking out about the dangers of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets since its founding in 1985. Scientific studies show that low-carbohydrate diets raise cholesterol levels in considerable number of individuals, sometimes to a dramatic degree. These diets also typically accelerate calcium losses and have led major health organizations to raise important questions about their possible contribution to heart problems, kidney abnormalities, osteoporosis, and other health problems.

Given the seriousness of these health risks, and the strength of the scientific evidence currently available, PCRM hopes this Web site will encourage people to be wary of high-protein diets and to choose healthier options. PCRM is also concerned about possible legal liability for doctors who prescribe these diets."

Look here:
http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/ris...Atkinsuhoh.htm
and here:
http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_informa...00503diet.html

Bottom line is most doctors agree that for obese people, a short term burst of this kind of diet is not a bad idea. But I cant find many (who arent making money off of it) who recommend it for long term use.

As with anything health related: see your doctor first.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 05:38 PM   #27
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Re: The Wab Diet

Concerning fish oil, all those Eskimos and Japanese
can't be wrong. In any case, my heart doctor
has me on 1 tablespoon of Carlson's fish oil daily.
It can't hurt, but boy does it taste awful.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 05:39 PM   #28
 
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Re: The Wab Diet

My Dad (87) says "stay away from doctors!". I think this is wise counsel. BTW. I've always felt that life span
was mostly a crap shoot. At age 60, I've lost
relatives, business associates, fishing buddies,
hunting buddies, girl friends, etc, ranging from their 20s
to 50s. Anyway, all younger than I am now. Certainly
makes a thinking person contemplate their mortality.

John Galt
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 06:41 PM   #29
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Re: The Wab Diet

Quote:
My Dad (87) says "stay away from doctors!".
I tend to agree. * I find that many doctors shoot from the hip, but try to pass off what they're doing as science. * Auto mechanics are the same way. *My car always has something new wrong with it when it gets back from the mechanic *

Luckily, we ER's have lots of time on our hands. * So, my advice would be to be wary of any advice, look at the data yourself, make your own judgement, and then experiment on yourself to see what works best for you.

I'd seriously love to see the before and after lipid profile of anybody who wants to try the Costco fish oil capsule experiment. * *And I'll try to post the results of my experiments as well.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 06:45 PM   #30
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Re: The Wab Diet

My Grandfather also said stay away from Doctors or to make a direct quote 'I don't need any Doctor to tell me I'm 89". He passed away at 90. His normal Breakfast was oatmeal, bacon and toast dipped in the bacon grease. Other meals were the meat and potatoes type. His secret was hard work (farmer until 86) and he did not worry.


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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 07:56 PM   #31
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Re: The Wab Diet

Hey, fish oil folks!

Check the label and make sure that the fish oil tablets have been processed to rid them of mercury, ok? Most are, some aren't.

Fish oil (and fiber, and vegetables with flavanoids and antioxidants) is (are) good for other things besides one's heart. Fish oil has been successful in treating depression and reducing cancer risk. Fiber and all the things one can get from vegetables but not vitaminn pills, lower risk of colon cancer, breast cancer, and I don't remember what else. You guys might end up with great hearts but all-around health is important!!

Anne
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 09:24 PM   #32
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Re: The Wab Diet

What was it that George Burns said? Something like "I had doctors all my life tell me to quit drinking, smoking and chasing women if I wanted to live longer...they're all dead now"...

I actually heard a few not so great things about costco's fish pills, I get 'em from Sam's. I suspect whatever the scuttlebutt was that I heard, it may have been localized. Costco's stuff tends to be first rate. Nothing really awful, just that they werent as effective in some trials as other products. I do know that they're very sensitive to light, heat and storage time.

I heard Carlsons was one of the finer products though, Charlie.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 09-24-2004, 10:09 PM   #33
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Re: The Wab Diet

And now for something completely different, an on-topic CHD risk calculator:

http://hin.nhlbi.nih.gov/atpiii/calc...?usertype=prof
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 10-06-2004, 05:50 PM   #34
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Re: The Wab Diet

I wouldn't skimp on the fish oil capsules. You should look for brands that are mollecularly distilled to make sure they are free of the toxic chemicals that are dumped in the oceans. Two brands I would recommend are Health From The Sun and Nordic Naturals.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 10-22-2004, 05:21 PM   #35
 
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Re: The Wab Diet

Okay folks.....the much anticipated results are in.

Before going on the Wabmester diet, My LDL was at
301. Now I am down to 245! Still high but a major
improvement, to say the least. I was shocked,
especially since I cheated a bit. I have been on the diet
close to 2 months. I also exercised a little more and ate
more oat bran. That's it. I figure with this diet,
taking a baby aspirin daily, plus ginkgo biloba, and with
all the booze I consume, my arteries must be flowing like
Niagara Falls

John Galt
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 10-24-2004, 09:30 AM   #36
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Re: The Wab Diet

Congrats, JG. Not bad for a quick and easy diet, eh? I'm still trying to run several days/week in the most recent phase of my experiment. I forgot how much I hated running. Still waiting for the endorphin rush to kick in
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 07-08-2005, 10:33 AM   #37
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Re: The Wab Diet

Got my numbers for the first time in a few years.

Total chol: 157
Trig's: 270 (low for my family, my dad does and grandpa did run in the 4-500's)
HDL: 91
LDL:69

Not too shabby. I might live.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 07-08-2005, 11:16 AM   #38
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Re: The Wab Diet

Total chol 222
HDL 44
LDL 131
Trigs 236

My doc said not to worry at this time, just watch my diet. Should I make my will out today? Shredder
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 07-08-2005, 11:18 AM   #39
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Re: The Wab Diet

I'm not on the wab diet either. We eat a lot of grains, fruits and vegetables, especially this time of year when I cant turn a corner without slamming into a farmers market full of local goodies. I took this test after polishing off a substantial portion of a large pizza with everything on it the night before.

Now just to show what genetics does for you, my wife eats about the same although she's more likely to turn to oatmeal than eggs in the morning and I'm the other way around, and I have some 'midnight snacks' after feeding the baby that she doesnt partake of. She treadmills a lot and my exercise is catch as catch can at best.

Her #s:

Chol: 289
Tri: 57
HDL: 97
LDL: 187

Not very good. And she cant take any statins unless she stops breast feeding.
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Re: The Wab Diet
Old 07-08-2005, 02:06 PM   #40
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Re: The Wab Diet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just not
Her #s:

Chol: 289
Tri: 57
HDL: 97
LDL: 187

Not very good.* And she cant take any statins unless she stops breast feeding.
Many doctors use ratio of total cholesterol to HDL. Your wife's ratio is quite good.
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