The World Owes Me a Living

[jollystomper]

I don’t agree with the concept of a “millennial mindset”.

I’ve seen plenty of entitlement expressed by people from every generation.

Agree. If there is a The World Owes me A Living" sentiment, it will not surprise to start seeing "The World Owes Me a Retirement" sentiment.


Universal income, here we come...

 

[razztazz]

It’s completely bogus. I went back and checked. It’s looks pretty fake since he doesn’t really talk in that way if you’ve read any of his interviews, etc..

Yes that has been a known interweb fake for many years now. Like most quotations attributed to George Carlin and the one by (but not by) Lee Iacoconuts.

 

[haha]

An observer as acute as Jeffrey Gundlach feels that we will come out of the next recession with some sort of "basic human income". I would not be surprised by this. In a democracy how do you get people to not vote to take more of your living if it appears better than theirs? Many people are violent, and there seems to be no love lost between the various groups. If enough people accept that the system holds attractive and reasonably likely benefits for them they have a reason to struggle on. Once that hope or faith is lost and given a modern viewpoint on morals it seems to me that things could get very bad very fast.

Ha

 

[scrabbler1]

When I was in college back in the 1980s, I remember a joke (might have been by Jackie Mason) about college degrees. It went something like this:


"People who get degrees in philosophy can't get jobs after graduation...……..but at least they know WHY!"

 

[RobbieB]

You asked "who knows" and snopes knows.

 

[Red Badger]

I don’t agree with the concept of a “millennial mindset”.

I’ve seen plenty of entitlement expressed by people from every generation.

+1.

But in the name of naming and shaming, I'll offer this. Listening to some 30 something on the radidio complaining about her student debt of ~$150K. Her undergrad was in some obscure field of classic literature. Then, she polished that turd by immediately attending grad school for "history of classic literature ." So, she was eminently qualified as some sort of librarian? I'm not harshing on librarians, but I suspect the demand is low and the salary is commensurate with said demand. And, of course, her degrees were 100% student loans.

I'm fine with liberal arts degrees. But have a damn plan before going six figures in the hole while hanging out at Starbucks for six years or more.

She could have learned a lot from Mike Row.

 

[joeea]

She could have learned a lot from Mike Row.

Yup.

She could have learned to spend a lot of time in theater and choir while in high school. She could learn to go to a community college, transfer to a 4-year college and then get a degree in communication studies.

And if her voice was good enough, she could land some jobs. Otherwise...

 

[NW-Bound]

From the article:

... Arts degrees give students the skills to speak and buy them time – that most precious commodity – to work out what they want to say and how to say it. Studying Freud, or reading James Joyce or Toni Morrison for the first time, introduces students to ideas that challenge their intellectual preconceptions, as well as the consensus of the society around them. Maybe that’s why those in power try to marginalise arts degrees.

There's nothing wrong with studying Freud, or reading different authors, or do some painting, etc..., after you are done with tending to the farm animals, or after the harvest season and you are waiting for winter to arrive. People did that for centuries. They did not expect to be paid just to read and study.

 

[Red Badger]

From the article:



There's nothing wrong with studying Freud, or reading different authors, or do some painting, etc..., after you are done with tending to the farm animals, or after the harvest season and you are waiting for winter to arrive. People did that for centuries. They did not expect to be paid just to read and study.

Well stated. Nothing wrong with pursuing knowledge of the humanities. But shelter, food, and safety should come first. And at one's own expense. I believe my contribution should be discretionary.... Happy to be taxed to send some deserving soul to attain an education that will provide sustenance. But to continue high school lounge debates? I'd prefer to opt out.

 

[Redbugdave]

Whatever attitude a person has will be shaped by the outside world if that person wants to succeed. I think any attitude of entitlement is fostered by the parents raising those kids. It comes from the need to protect. For the kids, it is a rude awakening if they are going to be truly independent. For me...I left home and went into the military. That was my rude awakening. My thinking cleared and I became successful in my own way.

 

[target2019]

The thread title is certainly misleading, I don’t see that attitude expressed anywhere in the article.

Have to chuckle at your observation. It is very accurate.

 

[indiajust]

Newly minted librarians have to be up to snuff on technology, database access... The books are the last of their worries. Especially research librarians. Bit of a reader, I am, and always fond of the stewards.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We appreciate all the great musicians, actors and performers near us but there seems to be an abundance of them which pushes live event prices down. Sometimes I think there must be more performers than audience members in our area. We've stopped going into the city for plays lately because the regional playhouse, acting school and college productions closer to home are so good.

It doesn't seem fair that someone really talented who can sing, dance and act amazingly well makes less than a mediocre programmer with minimal experience but that seems to be the reality here - abundance of performers, shortage of tech workers and they get paid based on supply and demand.

 

[Scuba]

Geeze, don't ruin a good rant thread with facts. This is another great opportunity for us to pat ourselves on the back.

[emoji23]

 

[rayinpenn]

I cant help think about my millennial daughter and her friends 1)medschool 2)PhD program molecular something 3)DD over 1/2 through masters (gpa 4.0) and full time developer

Sure shes got friends with environmental sciences and physics degrees, from lesser colleges in poor paying jobs but isnt that a decision they made?

These over achievers have a common trait .. endgame always in sight (med school, job, PhD program), academic excellence and a can do attitude.

Oh and one other little thing they go where the jobs are..

 

[joeea]

There's nothing wrong with studying Freud, or reading different authors, or do some painting, etc..., after you are done with tending to the farm animals, or after the harvest season and you are waiting for winter to arrive. People did that for centuries. They did not expect to be paid just to read and study.

They also lived in caves and died at 30-35 for many centuries. So what?

Hopefully "what we did for centuries" isn't the bar against which we measure ourselves these days.

 

[2soon2tell]

I recall a teacher from my junior high days many many years ago saying "the world does owe you a living BUT you have to work for it".

Comments?

 

[Music Lover]

Agreed, but some people (myself included) are fortunate to have a natural aptitude for skills that are highly valued. In my case, it led to a successful career as a software engineer. If, on the other hand, I had been born into a different world where (for example) art and musical ability were the most-valued skills, and STEM-related fields were not valued, I would have been screwed.

Not necessarily...you may have ended up as a roadie or sound technician.

 

[ncbill]

why blame just the kids?

a kid can't accumulate much debt for undergrad w/o an adult (usually parent) co-signer.

 

[imoldernu]

A story:

He's a poor boy and whether by luck or ability, won a full scholarship to the nations best liberal arts college.
Also, in love. After graduation married and in a year, the first child. Though advanced scholarships were offered, they did not pay bills, so the one-time dream of becoming a psychiatrist had to wait.

Businesses with good paying jobs don't often target liberal arts graduates, so he had to struggle to find a way to pay the bills. A moderately good job and two more children in short order, pretty well settled the path to the future.

One of the things about good liberal arts colleges, is that a large number of attendees are fortunate enough to have money in the family to support base, and then advanced education. Liberal arts graduates who then go on to post graduate degrees become the top 10% of leaders in education, medicine, the "Arts", government and yes, in business.

The world is changing, and the world of the 1950's is cannot be remotely compared to that of today's Millennials.
.........................................................................................................

Fortunately the dream lives on. Sometimes, the dream comes true. The advantage of coming through an advanced education without overwhelming debt cannot be ignored. The freedom to go where the spirit directs is given to the few. Thankfully they often give back.

For those who persevere through their own will and determination... I would agree... "The world owes them a living".

 

[jollystomper]

Agreed, but some people (myself included) are fortunate to have a natural aptitude for skills that are highly valued. In my case, it led to a successful career as a software engineer. If, on the other hand, I had been born into a different world where (for example) art and musical ability were the most-valued skills, and STEM-related fields were not valued, I would have been screwed.

It is not just having the skills that are highly valued. It is also learning how to use these skills to properly fit into an environment where others will find you productive. I have seen many, many examples of this in my life.

Having a math and computer science background got me a summer internship program at Megacorp. However, how I used those skills to accomplish things, and relate to people, it was got me hired permanently and started my career.

The year I started full time at Megacorp, they hired another student from my school. He was also a math and computer science major. However, he was very full of himself. And did not, as a summer intern, hesitate to tell others that they did not know how to do their job because he was smarter and would be getting a degree from an Ivy League school. He would also do other socially inept/obnoxious things. I tried to console him a couple of times, but he would not listen. At the end of the internship, Megacorp did not offer him a job.

And it was not just Megacorp. A few years later, DW and I ordered a pizza for dinner... and guess who shows up as the delivery person? And it was not just a "side hustle"... even with a math and computer science background and skills from an Ivy League school, they could not overcome his social skills in believing everyone else was wrong and he was right... and he continued to wear out his welcome in many places. It was not until he was almost 40 that he figured out he was the problem, not everyone else.

Having natural aptitude for something is a good start. But you need to work on that aptitude and develop it in conjunction with other skills. There are many "natural" athletes who are surpassed by those willing to work hard and longer to improve their skills and to be prepared to take advantage of opportunities.

 

[Walt34]

And it was not just Megacorp. A few years later, DW and I ordered a pizza for dinner... and guess who shows up as the delivery person?

Apparently there are lots of those folks in the world. When I had about 12-15 years on at work, things were not progressing the way I had thought they would and I had plenty of company. But at the same time I was halfway or more to a pension that while far from luxurious would allow me to be a comfortable bum, and put me in a position in which I would never have to work again if I didn't want to. I decided to tough it out and things did get better - much better than I had ever thought they would. Okay, that's a crap shoot, it could have very well turned out worse had the moon & stars aligned differently.

But a bunch of guys did decide to head for greener pastures and they quit. One in particular was especially noisy about what fools the "staying" ones were for staying with it. Fast-forward about five years and we (DW and I) were at my sister's house one day and she decided to order out for pizza. Guess who showed up as the delivery guy?

Ya just never know.

 

[NW-Bound]

...There's nothing wrong with studying Freud, or reading different authors, or do some painting, etc..., after you are done with tending to the farm animals, or after the harvest season and you are waiting for winter to arrive. People did that for centuries. They did not expect to be paid just to read and study.

They also lived in caves and died at 30-35 for many centuries. So what?

Hopefully "what we did for centuries" isn't the bar against which we measure ourselves these days.

Fair enough.

My point was that, people do things for personal enrichment, even nerdy guys like me who were fortunate to have technical skills and knowledge that were in demand, allowing me to make a good living. I cannot paint, or write poetry. But I read, and read quite a few books to learn new things outside of my technical area.

However, if you like these activities so much that it occupies your entire day, it is going to be tough turning them into money. To get somebody else to pay you money, you have to do something for them, not for your own personal enrichment and enjoyment.

The thread title is certainly misleading, I don’t see that attitude expressed anywhere in the article.

It is true. The author resigns to the fact that he cannot make a lot of money with what he likes to do. He knew and accepted it.

 

[HFWR]

I gave up being a radio announcer or a guitarist in a rock band (not to mention double-naught spy or international playboy) because the odds of me making a “living” looked slim...

Thankfully, I chose a slightly more secure route, though with no chance of ever being a star of any sort.

FIRE, or at least my version, was on my radar for twenty years plus, so I planned for it as best I could, but I always told others, many who likely weren’t doing much planning, that as soon as I figured out how to live on a hundred dollars a month I’d retire!

Thankfully it’s better than that... [emoji41]

 

[Lakewood90712]

It's not just Millennial generation,

I know of a woman, about 50, has a PhD in Comparative Literature from an Ivy League school. Has never held any job. Her occupation is collecting rent on the 2 crumbing rentals she inherited as she runs them into the ground by lack of maintenance.

This story will not end well.