The Zuckerbergs give it all away (well 99%)

[MichaelB]

Can we keep this discussion friendly and positive, as intended by the thread topic?

 

[healthyandfun]

I say hats off to Zuckerburg and Chan. This gift will positively impact lives and provide opportunities for those involved. Enough said!

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Amazing cynicism. They don't have to give anything, and it will amount to billions, but that's not a sacrifice worthy of note?

How do you figure?

+2.
Zuckerman, Gates, Buffett and other billionaire philanthropists have my profound appreciation and gratitude. It will be interesting to see how they implement the distribution plan.

 

[ERD50]

I find the negative comments ... .

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this thread. The comments that some have called cynical are really just jealousy, ...

I guess I just don't understand this. Which comments were 'negative'? Did anyone criticize him for giving it away? If so, I missed those posts, sorry.

And where is the jealousy? I'm not saying I don't wish I had $45B or even M, but where is the jealousy in the comments?

Instead, they've chosen to take that pile of money and use it in ways that will improve life on our planet. And if the publicity they get will encourage other billionaires to do the same, that's great.

But where is the money now? Surely not in a million mattresses, or buried in millions of tin cans in a very large back yard? Maybe it is doing good right now, providing loans to people to buy houses, or cars to get to work? Or providing investments in start up companies that might change the world?

Maybe it is better in the hands of a charity, but I'd have to say I really don't know how to measure that.

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

I guess I just don't understand this. Which comments were 'negative'? Did anyone criticize him for giving it away? If so, I missed those posts, sorry.

And where is the jealousy? I'm not saying I don't wish I had $45B or even M, but where is the jealousy in the comments?

Without rereading the thread. There are plenty of posts that suggests the Zuckerbergs aren't sacrificing because they will still be rich. Or arbitrarily suggesting that someone giving $10 to the Salvation Army is a bigger sacrifice. Or that if they want to make a statement they should give it all away.

If they give away billions to make the world a better place, that's generous/admirable - period. Why do we care if they still have plenty? Or that they'll legally minimize their taxes? Or that they give it away over a lifetime vs faster?

The money did not fall in their laps, and they don't have to give back a penny. Why is it necessary to diminish their contribution at all? Cynicism? Jealousy?

But I have no doubt we disagree once again, surprise...

 

[Slow But Steady]

And where is the jealousy? I'm not saying I don't wish I had $45B or even M, but where is the jealousy in the comments?-ERD50

In my interpretation, the jealousy is underlying the comments that have the tone of "Giving so much money away is not really a sacrifice for someone who has so much." YMMV.

But where is the money now? Surely not in a million mattresses, or buried in millions of tin cans in a very large back yard? Maybe it is doing good right now, providing loans to people to buy houses, or cars to get to work? Or providing investments in start up companies that might change the world?

Maybe it is better in the hands of a charity, but I'd have to say I really don't know how to measure that.

-ERD50

The money right now is a bunch of Facebook shares that are owned personally by the Zuckerbergs. It doesn't pay any dividends, so it's just a stock certificate sitting in a drawer somewhere.

 

[ERD50]

Without rereading the thread. There are plenty of posts that suggests the Zuckerbergs aren't sacrificing because they will still be rich. Or arbitrarily suggesting that someone giving $10 to the Salvation Army is a bigger sacrifice. Or that if they want to make a statement they should give it all away.

If they give away billions to make the world a better place, that's generous/admirable - period. Why do we care if they still have plenty? Or that they'll legally minimize their taxes? Or that they give it away over a lifetime vs faster?

The money did not fall in their laps, and they don't have to give back a penny. Why is it necessary to disparage their contribution at all? Cynicism? Jealousy?

We disagree once again, surprise...

Thanks for the explanation - I think it helps.

I think the disconnect is this - I don't see the comments of it "not being a sacrifice" as critical, cynical, disparaging, or negative in any way, or having anything to do with jealousy. It's simply an observation.


Don't you agree? What has he 'sacrificed'? Will his life be any different if he gave this amount away tomorrow? It does not seem so, he can still afford anything he wants, with plenty of margin.

And not being a sacrifice doesn't make the donation any more/less of anything. It doesn't diminish anything. If the money will do good, it will do good. Sacrifice or not has nothing to do with that.

I think the comments about a $10 donation from average folks are just attempts to put this in perspective. I don't view those commenters as jealous or anything. That's all.

It's his money, if he wants to keep enough to remain super-rich, good for him. If he wants to keep it all, good for him. It's his money. As I said earlier, it's not clear to me that the money isn't doing plenty of good right now - but I honestly don't know how to measure that. But that doesn't really matter either, just an observation, food for thought.

-ERD50

 

[Fermion]

If they give away billions to make the world a better place, that's generous/admirable - period. Why do we care if they still have plenty? Or that they'll legally minimize their taxes? Or that they give it away over a lifetime vs faster?

Are you saying the $10 contribution doesn't make the world a better place? Isn't it also admirable?

Why do we care how much the amount is? Why do we oooh and ahhh at someone who says that sometime in the future they will give away a large portion of their wealth but we don't even really pay attention when an average person drops some money in a bucket at a Safeway.

 

[ERD50]

...
The money right now is a bunch of Facebook shares that are owned personally by the Zuckerbergs. It doesn't pay any dividends, so it's just a stock certificate sitting in a drawer somewhere.

Interesting. So is this money actually tied up, sitting in a drawer and not doing anything? Maybe you are right. I'd have to think about that...

Well, if he sells $1B worth, the $1B comes from somewhere, right? And that $1B exists somewhere now, and it is doing something, presumably. It's probably in other investments?

Now my head hurts, this all seems very circular! I guess the value was created with the initial growth of FB shares, I'm fuzzy on what selling them now does, macro-wise.

-ERD50

 

[easysurfer]

Will be interesting in history what folks like him and Gates will be known for their tech life or being a generous philanthropist.

That said, I still complain about using FB .

 

[Midpack]

Are you saying the $10 contribution doesn't make the world a better place? Isn't it also admirable?

Please show where I said anything like that?

But your earlier comment is completely arbitrary and unfounded.

Sure, maybe it will. A person dropping a $10 bill into a Salvation Army bucket though has likely made a greater sacrifice and yet gets no front page news article.

 

[RunningBum]

Are you saying the $10 contribution doesn't make the world a better place? Isn't it also admirable?

Why do we care how much the amount is? Why do we oooh and ahhh at someone who says that sometime in the future they will give away a large portion of their wealth but we don't even really pay attention when an average person drops some money in a bucket at a Safeway.

Which one is going to make a bigger impact in the world? By an enormous amount? There's your answer.

 

[ponyboy]

The money he donates will do about as much good as the $100 million he already donated to New Jersey schools. Do a quick google search: zuckerberg new jersey schools and get ready to read how colossal of a failure that was. When a check is written that big everyone will come out of the woodwork to charge for their brilliant ideas...in the tune of sometimes $1,000/hr to consult. Nice.

 

[ERD50]

...
If they give away billions to make the world a better place, that's generous/admirable - period. ...

Allow me to address this one more specifically.

Is it 'generous'? In my view, not particularly. Semantically, one could argue that it is generous by definition. But from my meaning of the word, no, not particularly.

It gets to that concept of 'marginal utility'. Z has so much, the marginal utility of all those B's is near zero. It quite literally is worth near nothing to him. So is it being generous to give away something that is of little value to you?

An analogy: Let's say I have some old nick-nack in my basement. It has no sentimental value to me, and it has no cash value on the open market. I meant to toss it in the trash last time I cleaned up, but I missed it.

A friend comes over, who happens to be the only collector in the world of these particular knick-knacks, and it would complete a missing part of his collection. It would mean a lot to him to own it, but it means nothing to me. He sees it, explains it to me, and I say "take it".

Was my 'donation' generous or admirable?

All those $B's are like knick-knacks to Z. That's what we are trying to get across.

-ERD50

 

[ponyboy]

Which one is going to make a bigger impact in the world? By an enormous amount? There's your answer.

Meh...depends. If you have 150 million people donate $10 every year vs 1 dude donating $30 billion lifetime...you tell me.

 

[Which Roger]

As someone who has been hoarding money to support a 40-year vacation, I don't feel that I'm in any position to suggest how anyone else should handle his or her money.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Oye vey. This has been a painful thread to read...so out of character for the ER.org crowd.

I am happy to see Mr. Z give away as much as he is...it's admirable. My only heartache (not towards him specifically) are folks that 1) advertise that they are giving something away. What happened to modesty? Perhaps I donate to charity, perhaps I don't. It's no one's business except mine and the IRS. 2) What is this nonsense with "giving back"? I hate that term as it's incorrect. To "give back" would to imply that you were GIVEN something originally. In this case, Mr. Z wasn't GIVEN his wealth...he earned it. OK...off my soapbox.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Also...this forum doesnt have much activity in general. It seems to have a small following. Maybe thats why? Theres only the regulars and or users who have been here for a while. Im surprised how few new threads are started here...or how many new comments in general are posted. Guess I have to spend more time at bogleheads. Its too bad as im all about retiring early and was hoping to find a ton of info related to that.

Ummm. Well, in the last hour, there has been no less than 20 responses and/or new threads. That's a pretty active board. Of course if you compare it to Reddit, where there are millions of users (and where about 80% of the responses are useless) then sure, it's quiet here. Nonetheless, when it comes to ER, I certainly appreciate quality *over* quantity. So, if you don't think that there is useful information to be had, then feel free to not hang around.

Oh yes, and as a tip...if you are specifically looking for information about being FI, RE, or FIREd, then I don't think that information would be in the "other topics" area, especially this one.

 

[MichaelB]