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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-06-2003, 05:26 PM   #21
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

You lost me with the "Dubya" comment. I am not a big
fan as he is not nearly conservative enough for my taste. However, he is so much better than anyone
who might run against him that I am quite supportive
in general.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-06-2003, 09:09 PM   #22
 
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Well, he didn't lose me with the 'Dubya' comment!

It seems what the current admin is striving for is a very upper class of very wealthy people. This can be made even more possible by importing very cheap illegal labor. Texas has been doing this for a while!

Our Grandparents that went through the depression of the 30's elected FDR 4 times because he saved the country from a state which we are currently headed. The labor unions of today are powerless, our jobs are being exported overseas. We are about 4 points of unemployment away from another FDR type of administration.
Joe six pack of today thinks he is a Republican, but with no Health care, no pension, no job he will be a Democrat soon.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-07-2003, 03:36 AM   #23
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Well, cut-throat, you may be right (about Joe Sixpack
being a Democrat) because almost everyone looks left leaning to me. I am not now, nor ever will be wealthy, but I do not begrudge the rich their
perks and privileges. I believe in "trickle down"
economics 100%. As far as labor unions losing their power, obviously I am not losing sleep over that.
What we need is a little more rugged individualism
and a little less running to the government/unions/etc
to solve all of our problems. A prediction:
Orwell's version of "Big Brother" did not arrive by 1984,
but he is still coming. Bet on it.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-07-2003, 07:27 AM   #24
 
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Quote:
What we need is a little more rugged individualism
and a little less running to the government/unions/etc
to solve all of our problems.
There are always a few rugged individualists. I may be one also. I have never been in a Union and retired on my own. I won't have to depend on Social Security either.

What I talking about is the way the masses act and react. The masses are not saving for their retirement at all. When the party ends, the masses will expect someone to come to their rescue. This is how politics works in America - Have you ever heard the saying 'People vote their pocketbooks' - Pocketbooks change and people in America mostly live from paycheck to paycheck. Today, most have a negative net worth.

Business cycles have always been with us, and this downturn could be especially bad. The pendulum of politics will swing once again.

There were rugged individualists in the great depression and they cashed in on others misery. *But, they did not control the politics of the nation. The masses did and will.

My politics have nothing to do with depending on government for making it. I would like government to stay out of our lives in the social issues. Deciding whether Abortion is legal, choosing a religion for us. Deciding who can get married. I don't care, if three guys want to get married - Let them !
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-07-2003, 09:01 AM   #25
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Hey cutthroat! Re. "Government staying out of our lives", we found some common ground!!!! Alas, it's
not going to happen. Instead you will see more
and more intrusion and control over every aspect of your existence, and it matters little which major party
is in power. The pace may slow but the direction never does.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-08-2003, 01:34 AM   #26
 
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

1) As someone stated above, illegals don't generally pay SS taxes. This is why E&J and Tyson recruit them: low wages, no employer SS, and no state unemployment taxes. If the illegals do use a SS#, they're using someone else's (lucky for that person).
2) Are there that many elderly illegal Mexican nationals?
3) Related to 2), one reason the fund will go belly up in 25 years is because of the worker:retiree ratio. If there are more workers...

Ultimately, it's a giveaway, since these types of agreements should only be made between relatively equal wealthy countries and they shouldn't apply to illegals, but it's not the end of the world for SS. I'm also not concerned about it because I don't have SS in my RE plans anyway.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-08-2003, 04:23 AM   #27
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Without getting into my feeling about immigration(illegal or otherwise), which would take up a lot of time;
I will say this. I am amused by spreaders of gloom and doom re. the future of SS, and those who say
"I don't plan on getting any" or " It will go broke in
(insert your choice here)". First of all, it's not going away
no matter what. Oh sure, they may cry poor and tinker.
That's what politicians do. BUT, with all those SS
recipients who vote.....................SS will be the last
entitlement to go. Trust me. Without SS
I would be DOA, ER-wise. For me it is the linchpin on which
my future financial health revolves.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-08-2003, 04:48 AM   #28
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

23.880% of our income stream at age 66 according to my latesst calculation -social security estimate and FIREcalc.

Here is my soapbox comment of the day - Show me the numbers - if I can get my credit rating, health status and other data commercially -where is the data on aliens - and what my taxes paying for - ? how many aliens (illegal) have shown up on various data bases?
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-08-2003, 05:17 AM   #29
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Quote:
1) As someone stated above, illegals don't generally pay SS taxes. ... If the illegals do use a SS#, they're using someone else's (lucky for that person).
2) Are there that many elderly illegal Mexican nationals?
3) Related to 2), one reason the fund will go belly up in 25 years is because of the worker:retiree ratio. If there are more workers...
Item 1. *Interesting point.
Item 2. *There probably aren't many elderly illegal Mexican nationals in the U.S. now. *The problem will be in the future, when the illegals presently in the U.S. become old and dependent on future workers. *The fact that poor Hispanics tend to have a high birth rate will produce more future workers, but then what happens when they get old? *It's a mathematical certainty that the U.S. population can't keep increasing indefinitely.
Item 3. *I agree with JohnGalt that it is extremely unlikely that Social Security will be abandoned altogether. *As the ratio of workers to beneficiaries declines, various means will necessarily be adopted to increase payments into the system and to cut back on benefits. *I'm not complaining about that because it reflects economic reality.

I think that JohnGalt should join the Libertarian Party, although a true Libertarian would be opposed to a "socialistic" program like Social Security. *Like Cut-Throat, I tend to agree with Libertarians on matters of personal morality, and would add that I agree with them on the idea of legalizing marijuana (then regulating it like alcohol) and decriminalizing possession of other drugs. *And I have never used any of these myself, nor have any desire to.

Given a choice between an ultra-conservative (religious right) Republican and a liberal (Marxist/unionist) Democrat, I'll vote for a Libertarian. *Better to have no new legislation than to have stupid legislation.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-08-2003, 04:41 PM   #30
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Mega dittos Ted! You are correct in that the party for me is the Libertarians. Alas, I am too old and tired to fight the "good fight". Sooooooooo, I mostly just try to stay out of the way. The world can now go to hell
without me.
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!
Old 09-08-2003, 05:54 PM   #31
 
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Re: They're trying to give away our SS!

Johngalt,

You are right that SS is not disappearing. - This is politcal death! - If Bush, Cheny could get rid of it and survive, it would be gone in a heartbeat.

Politically the right talks about less spending and less taxes, but they have to borrow to give a tax cut. There is nothing right now that they could cut that would survive politically. And SS would be the last to go!

Even the decorating budget of the White House would have to be slashed before SS. They will cut the SS of those that have not yet been born, because they are not around to protest.
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