Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-03-2004, 03:13 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,880
This court decision seems incorrect to me


Earlier this week, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (Philadelphia) rendered a 2-to-1 decision that would allow educational institutions to bar recruiters from their campuses in protest of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military. *

The court case came about because of a recent law change requiring suspension of government contracts with universities that impose such restrictions. *Several university law schools, including New York University, George Washington University, Stanford, and Georgetown, brought the suit to block implementation of the law.

The government has not yet decided whether to appeal the ruling.

The bottom line is that the nation is at war, and our military manpower is stretched extremely thin. Regardless of one's opinions concerning the "don't
ask, don't tell" policy, there have to be better ways to express those opinions than directly impeding recruitment of the manpower needed to defend our country.

What is your opinion on this timley issue while the USA is in the middle of an armed coflict?

__________________

__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-03-2004, 03:19 PM   #2
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Quote:
in protest of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military.
Well, I'm in favor of Civil Rights and Freedom. So if they are protesting because the military is treating Gays different than other folks then I'm all for it.

When the U.S. stops fighting for Civil Rights of their Citizens, then I'm not sure I want to be on the side of United States. I guess I'm for Freedom, no matter what your choices of life are. - Even I don't agree with them.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-03-2004, 04:01 PM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 250
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

I thought prior to this decision the University as a whole would be punished for the actions of only one department (in this case the law school). That hardly seems fair either.

Honestly, I don't know if this is a good decision or not, but I don't think the fact that we are at war and hurting for manpower should have any bearing on the case. I would feel very uncomfortable if the court was making decisions based on whether it was a convenience for military recruiting and the War on Terror rather than whether it is right or wrong according to the Constitution.
__________________
FlowGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-03-2004, 05:04 PM   #4
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

You'd think with the military's desparate need for bodies to send overseas they wouldn't give a damn about people's personal sexual orientation.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-03-2004, 05:43 PM   #5
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 94
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Quote:
You'd think with the military's desparate need for bodies to send overseas.....
The tragedy is that there is no shortage of ''bodies'' to be returned (of all the Nations/Nationalities involved).

Simon888
__________________
50% Down in NW and Can't Stop Smiling!!
SDY888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-04-2004, 05:40 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,880
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

How will the military obtain good new lawyers if access to these law schools is denied? *

Soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen need good lawyers to represent them in legal disputes with their branch of service.

If the door is shut on graduates of these schools the quality of representation will decrease. *Will justice be served by this?

Probably not....
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-04-2004, 06:11 PM   #7
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Quote:
How will the military obtain good new lawyers if access to these law schools is denied?
Maybe the Military needs to change their tune.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-04-2004, 06:33 PM   #8
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 250
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Quote:
How will the military obtain good new lawyers if access to these law schools is denied? *

Soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen need good lawyers to represent them in legal disputes with their branch of service.

If the door is shut on graduates of these schools the quality of representation will decrease. *Will justice be served by this?

Probably not....
You make some good points, but I still don't see why this is relevent to the case. Witholding funds from schools because they won't allow military recruiters on campus is either an abridgement of the law school's first amendment rights to freely associate or it isn't. I'm not a constitutional lawyer, so I have no idea if this was a good call from a legal perspective. However, the law should be the only thing that matters - not whether it makes a recruiter's job more difficult.

BTW, I can think of lots of ways to get good lawyers to serve as JAG officers. There are other ways to advertise, and paying them more might be a good start. I also know that at least the USMC has a very competitive scholarship program for current officers wanting to attend law school. I have a friend who's applying for it after he finishes his tour in Iraq. If accepted he'll attend law school fulltime at goverment expense, all the while getting his full O-3 pay and allowances. My husband considered doing the same but decided that he was having too much fun in the infantry to consider leaving it for a "desk job". *sigh*
__________________
FlowGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-05-2004, 05:50 AM   #9
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Too many laws - too many lawyers.

JG
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 10:11 AM   #10
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 495
Send a message via AIM to yelnad Send a message via Yahoo to yelnad
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

I agree with the court decision. Unfortunately the university I work for gets so many military and government contracts, that'll it'll never boot ROTC from campus.
__________________
Yelnad --"What you're paying for is an education, not a room at the Sheraton,and sometimes that education is uncomfortable."- Jim Terhune, Dean of Student Affairs, Colgate University
yelnad is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 10:22 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Frankly, I'd like to see the military recruiters booted from all college/university campuses. If anyone really wants to be trained to be cannon fodder, there are plenty of sucker recriuiting offices off campus.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 11:36 AM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BigMoneyJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 2,627
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

At first glance it appears to me that the "gay" issue is a red herring to the core issue: Can the government deny contracts to institutions that disallow Army recruiting. If so, does this apply only to colleges? Public colleges? Should the Army be able contractually stipulate they can recruit GI's at Lockheed and Boeing?

This is the first I've heard of the case, so I'm probably missing something.

If the Army doesn't have enough people to fight our wars then either cut back on wars, raise the incentives for recruitment or start up the draft again. Seems simple enough to me aside from the political ramifications.
__________________
BigMoneyJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 01:50 PM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Tadpole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,169
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Since many of you are parents, I am surprised at your reaction to this. I would have thought you would be upset at the No Child Left Behind provision for recruiting in your schools. PTAs in many states are quite upset. Apparently, if schools get money, military recruiter get student records unless a parent signs a form to withhold the record.

http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/gbase...?oid=oid:37281
No Child Left Unharassed
Bush holds school dollars as "ransom" to build a poor-people's army

October 9, 2003

http://www.pta.org//ptawashington/issues/rights.asp

Military Recruitment
School district must notify parents of high school students that military recruiters have access to students' names, addresses, telephone numbers, and other additional information. Under the law, military recruiters are entitled to this information unless the parent says no. If you have not been notified about your right to remove your child from this list, contact your school principal or school district office. (Section 9528 of ESEA)


__________________
Tadpole is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 01:54 PM   #14
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

My children are all grown. But, even if they were
not, this would not get me worked up. It's just
one more step on our march to '1984'. I've got bigger
fish to fry.

John Galt
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 05:16 PM   #15
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me




Hey JG,
If we end up in the same "re-education" camp, we can fry your fish together.

Big Brother NeoCon is watching ALL of us.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-06-2004, 05:28 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid Hudson Valley
Posts: 1,778
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Right! The bottom line is that the nation is a war. I don't care who I share a fox hole with as long he can do his job.
__________________
In a panamax down by the river.
BUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-07-2004, 04:47 AM   #17
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 495
Send a message via AIM to yelnad Send a message via Yahoo to yelnad
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Big Money Jim -- It's not a "gay" issue. It's an issue of accepting federal funding. Traditionally, the gov't says you need to follow their rules in order to accept their funds. Institutions of higher education are finally turning that around on them. You need to follow our rules in order to recruit on our campuses.
__________________
Yelnad --"What you're paying for is an education, not a room at the Sheraton,and sometimes that education is uncomfortable."- Jim Terhune, Dean of Student Affairs, Colgate University
yelnad is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-07-2004, 05:45 AM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

Quote:
Since many of you are parents, I am surprised at your reaction to this. I would have thought you would be upset at the No Child Left Behind provision for recruiting in your schools. PTAs in many states are quite upset. Apparently, if schools get money, military recruiter get student records unless a parent signs a form to withhold the record.

http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/gbase...?oid=oid:37281
No Child Left Unharassed
Bush holds school dollars as "ransom" to build a poor-people's army

October 9, 2003

http://www.pta.org//ptawashington/issues/rights.asp

Military Recruitment
School district must notify parents of high school students that military recruiters have access to students' names, addresses, telephone numbers, and other additional information. Under the law, military recruiters are entitled to this information unless the parent says no. If you have not been notified about your right to remove your child from this list, contact your school principal or school district office. (Section 9528 of ESEA)

Reason #486 why my kids will never set foot in a public school.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-07-2004, 06:24 AM   #19
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 190
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

I agree with Brewer, I'm so glad my 15 and 11 year old boys are being schooled at home. The Government Nanny system can be scary.

Also, JG, might you whistle a slightly different tune if your sons weren't adults now?

(No flame please, I've had members of my family, as far back as anyone can remember, who have fought, died and been disabled to protect my right to say what I want.)

Judy
__________________
www.strawbaleredux.blogspot.com
JWV is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me
Old 12-07-2004, 07:45 AM   #20
 
Posts: n/a
Re: This court decision seems incorrect to me

No Judy, even if my kids were still in school I would feel
the same. Not saying I don't see the problem, just
that it's the way the world is going and you and I
won't stop it (neither will either major political party).
So, I am picking my fights and there are a lot of issues
that worry me much more than this one. BTW, all
of my grandkids are home schooled which I think is neat,
although kind of a strain on their parents I would imagine (four of them so far).
My teacher friends (mostly NEA libs) think home schooling is the work of Satan, or maybe the
religious right wackos

JG

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Family Court as Outcomes Randomizer haha Other topics 11 02-25-2007 11:17 AM
Federal Court Jury Summons WanderALot Other topics 41 01-14-2007 12:17 PM
Undergrad Decision. PLEASE HELP (GE- CFS, JPMorgan, ABNAMRO) yamasho Young Dreamers 17 12-13-2006 11:26 AM
Tough Spending Decision grumpy Life after FIRE 100 10-06-2006 05:02 AM
A Decision Analysis approach to SWR choices Rich_by_the_Bay FIRE and Money 27 03-09-2006 09:18 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:25 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.