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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 10:10 AM   #21
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Re: This is truly scary.

precisely, and therein lies the danger. for the heart is fallible but god is not. and your god might not be my god. so if you follow your god into battle and i follow mine, we will not know our hearts. we will only spill our blood.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 10:17 AM   #22
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Re: This is truly scary.

I have NO IDEA where this thread's going....... Some folks on here (like me) are Christians, but that doesn't mean we are warmongering blind followers................. :P :P :P

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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 10:18 AM   #23
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
my question is what is wrong with the parents. That wage is only 6.73 per hour for each. That is too close to minimum wage for the parents to have tried to move ahead. You can go to work at McD's or Wendy's for more than that. To answer your question yes I do want to live in a world like that. The reason is it means there is opportunity to succeed. The Donald was well off to start, but he made the billions it wasn't given to him.
Not everyone has the same advantages, and not everyone has the ability to "pull himself up by the bootstraps." Those opportunities you speak of are not there for people who are limited in any way, even through no fault of their own. For example, people who are "a bit slow" are often lucky to get those minimum wage jobs. Oh, and at $7 an hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, one would only gross $14,000, so two of those jobs would gross $28k. After FICA, etc. not much would go home with that person. I have a friend, mother in a family of five, husband's a rancher, and they tried to get by on $25k a year. That was several years ago, but it wasn't that much easier then. And yes, she did try birth control. She's not sorry it didn't work.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 10:20 AM   #24
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
I have NO IDEA where this thread's going....... Some folks on here (like me) are Christians, but that doesn't mean we are warmongering blind followers................. :P :P :P

Amen to that. That's the point I was trying to make. I won't join the Bush-bashing party, though. I have no idea what it must be like to try to do his job, to have that trust to try to keep a nation safe. I'm sure he's doing what he truly believes is best, and if I disagree, I can do that without hating on the guy. I didn't buy 100% into everything Clinton did either, and I got really frustrated with the Christians and Republicans who hated on him back then, too.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 10:55 AM   #25
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKH
Not everyone has the same advantages, and not everyone has the ability to "pull himself up by the bootstraps." Those opportunities you speak of are not there for people who are limited in any way, even through no fault of their own. For example, people who are "a bit slow" are often lucky to get those minimum wage jobs. Oh, and at $7 an hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, one would only gross $14,000, so two of those jobs would gross $28k. After FICA, etc. not much would go home with that person. I have a friend, mother in a family of five, husband's a rancher, and they tried to get by on $25k a year. That was several years ago, but it wasn't that much easier then. And yes, she did try birth control. She's not sorry it didn't work.
I do agree that those a bit slow are lucky to get above minimum wage, but we are not talking the odd situation we are talking about the norm. When talking about society as a whole the norm must be the standard. I believe most people do have the ability to pull themselves up, if left alone and allowed to do it. If I did not believe this then I would wholeheartedly say let's abandon capitalism and switch to communism. If I need reassurance I just look at some of the people on this site, who started with little and worked their butts off to retire early or be on track to retire early. If the government had their way these people would still be working and contributing to the public funds. 7*(2080*2)=29120, if you don't believe me use a calculator. So is the problem that the poor are paying their taxes or is it that they are not advancing enough. You know several years ago I was able to live nicely on 10,000 per year, but that means nothing when it is not adjusted for inflation. Family of five is a tough situation, but is it society's fault that your friend kept having children?
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 12:58 PM   #26
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
I believe most people do have the ability to pull themselves up, if left alone and allowed to do it. If I did not believe this then I would wholeheartedly say let's abandon capitalism and switch to communism. ?
To say that there is no middle ground between capitalism and communism would a little extreme in my view.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #27
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKH
What do non-Christians say? People suffer and people die. That's what happens in this world. There is NO RELIGION whose God can be claimed to prevent it, so I'm not sure why this question always comes up when Christianity is discussed.
I think this was in response to me reacting to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
My sister in law said that Katrina happened because of the things that happened in New Orleans!!
by saying:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
What does someone who thinks like that say when her young child gets cancer, original sin?
My statement wasn't a diss on Christians it was a diss on the pre-Christians who make comments like the one about Katrina. No true Christian would say such a thing; it is totally unlike anything Jesus would say. They should read their own bumper stickers (WWJD?) and maybe it would dawn on them that they are Old Testament people.

And for them I ask, once again, if you believe bad things (e.g. Katrina) result from God punishing evil doers, what do you say when he visits cancer on your toddler?
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 04:46 PM   #28
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Re: This is truly scary.

Religion is brainwashing kids before they can make an intelligent decision on their own.

Someone obviously rammed LKH with this stuff before he/she could tell fairy tales from reality.

Maybe it was [moderator edit]
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 05:29 PM   #29
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
Bible study , thursday April 19 North Carolina.

Comment..

From a group of ladies, George Bush must know what he is talking about and doing because he is a saved Christian!

Oh Boy.
Lets get back on point, I was quiet at the comment. However there are many in the country that are blindly following a president and his policies only because he is a born again christian.

That is what is scary.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 07:26 PM   #30
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
Lets get back on point, I was quiet at the comment. However there are many in the country that are blindly following a president and his policies only because he is a born again christian.

That is what is scary.
Yes very scary. But the ball was back in your court way back in the beginning with the question about what you said in response to the scary ladies.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 07:35 PM   #31
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Re: This is truly scary.

Just remember, from another thread on this board we learned that conservatives, like the ones you mentioned, think with their heads.

Hey, liberals think with their heads too. Bill Clinton certainly did. And it got a certain chunky intern's blue dress stained, as I recall.

And while the male conservatives may think with their heads, what do the female ones think with? :P
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 07:35 PM   #32
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
Lets get back on point, I was quiet at the comment. However there are many in the country that are blindly following a president and his policies only because he is a born again christian.

That is what is scary.
And many follow a leader because he is a Democrat, or because he is a Republican, or because he was from 'humble beginnings' or a 'war hero'.

It's *all* scary. But many people do not like to think. They would rather just 'trust' someone with whom they share a common value. That is the scary part, IMO.

-ERD50

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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 08:01 PM   #33
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888
Lets get back on point, I was quiet at the comment. However there are many in the country that are blindly following a president and his policies only because he is a born again christian.

That is what is scary.
ERD50 is right on. There are people following various politicians and political agendas for all sorts of non-rational or single-issue reasons.

I understand you're having trouble letting go of this since it happened right there in your very own Bible study class. But there's other things you can do on Thursday nights, right?



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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 08:06 PM   #34
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKH
My question is, do we really want to live in a world where Donald Trump can brag that he takes in $28k a MINUTE, when young parents who work two full-time jobs can't make that in a YEAR?
A resounding 'YES' from me. What is the alternative? Redistribute everybody's income so we all have the same, regardless of how much effort, education or risk an individual put in to gather that income? That describes a world that I would not want to live in.

We should have social programs to help those who cannot help themselves. But allow people to get a reward for taking risk and working hard.

-ERD50
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 08:17 PM   #35
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Re: This is truly scary.

Zipper, I really can't think of any other explanation. Well stated.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 08:21 PM   #36
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper
Maybe it was mom?

And the cycle goes on, because I'm sure LKH is abusing his/her own kids with this crap.
Zipper you stated in a post a while back that you were a father and grandfather many times over. Yet, you seem to relish bringing peoples families into discussions in inappropriate ways. That makes you scum. Why don't you try telling the poster what you think without bringing their mother or children into it?
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 09:51 PM   #37
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
I think this was in response to me reacting to:
by saying:My statement wasn't a diss on Christians it was a diss on the pre-Christians who make comments like the one about Katrina. No true Christian would say such a thing; it is totally unlike anything Jesus would say. They should read their own bumper stickers (WWJD?) and maybe it would dawn on them that they are Old Testament people.

And for them I ask, once again, if you believe bad things (e.g. Katrina) result from God punishing evil doers, what do you say when he visits cancer on your toddler?
Thanks, donheff, for the clarification! That's a good question. Like you, I don't believe God works that way.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 09:55 PM   #38
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
A resounding 'YES' from me. What is the alternative? Redistribute everybody's income so we all have the same, regardless of how much effort, education or risk an individual put in to gather that income? That describes a world that I would not want to live in.

We should have social programs to help those who cannot help themselves. But allow people to get a reward for taking risk and working hard.

-ERD50
I wouldn't want to live in a pure communist state. But I do believe that we need to make it a little easier for the people who don't have all the advantages to make a decent living, even if it means The Donald can only make $15K a minute. He'd still be rich as Croesus, but maybe the people who give the only resource they have - time - to make our businesses work should get a little more of the reward than they currently get.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-23-2007, 10:13 PM   #39
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper
Religion is brainwashing kids before they can make an intelligent decision on their own.

Someone obviously rammed LKH with this stuff before he/she could tell fairy tales from reality.

Maybe it was mom?

And the cycle goes on, because I'm sure LKH is abusing his/her own kids with this crap.
I'm always amazed at the venom that some people spew at people of faith, particularly Christians. I never did anything to you, and you probably need to get used to the fact that lots of people believe differently than you do. Play nice, will you? Kind of sad that I have to say that to an adult.
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Re: This is truly scary.
Old 04-24-2007, 07:02 AM   #40
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Re: This is truly scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKH
I wouldn't want to live in a pure communist state. But I do believe that we need to make it a little easier for the people who don't have all the advantages to make a decent living, even if it means The Donald can only make $15K a minute. He'd still be rich as Croesus, but maybe the people who give the only resource they have - time - to make our businesses work should get a little more of the reward than they currently get.
The problem with that line of thinking is once someone like Trump hits the magic ceiling why should he risk more of his money only to have the profit taken away. To put it in perspective the government says you can only earn $10,000 in interest and dividends per year, after that you must surrender everything to the government for redistribution. After all you really didn't earn it, you only invested in a company and are sitting back taking the profit. The second part isn't very effective either. Every person in a company is hired only because they help make the company a certain amount of money. If say the security guard at the front door helps the company earn $25,000 a year because he makes customers feel safe, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to pay her $40,000. It would be smarter/cheaper just to get rid of the security guard and lose the $25,000 per year. When we are talking about the minimum wage or near minimum wage type work, normally the employee brings the company very little money or the job requires very little skill so they receive very little money.
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