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This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 12:53 PM   #1
 
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This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

If anyone doubts that the country has moved to the looney side, just read this quote by the leading 'Conservative' of the 1960's. Barry is probably spinning in his grave to see the Depths his party has sunk to.

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However, on religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'

-- Sen. Barry Goldwater (R)

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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 02:07 PM   #2
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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. Barry is probably spinning in his grave to see the Depths his party has sunk to.
He's probably spinning in his grave to see the Depths BOTH parties have sunk to.
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 02:28 PM   #3
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Almost makes me ashamed to remember my vote for LBJ.

Mikey
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 02:52 PM   #4
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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Almost makes me ashamed to remember my vote for LBJ.

Mikey
Do you remember the tv ad with the little girl in the daisies and a voiceover counting down? 10, 9, 8, ..... 1 and then the mushroom cloud. Fade to black. Product of Mr. Bill Moyers. Very effective. I think they only ran it once or twice, but it was effective. Anyway, that scary ad helped elect LBJ, the same LBJ who, in 1964 said, "I'll not send your boys to fight in an Asian war." About one year after his reelection, he did.

Barry was correct about the religious nuts; can't stand them, leftwing or rightwing. If you want to practice religion, do it, by all means, just don't try to make your beliefs the law of the land. That's called theocracy, which is the biggest problem in the Mid-East.

In his latter years, Barry became much more moderate. He, at that time almost unheard of, endorsed gays in the military. Said all military need was someone who could shoot straight (I'm misquoting, but the gist is correct).

I wonder how the VietNam war would have turned out, had Barry got in. Alas, we'll never know.

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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 03:06 PM   #5
 
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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the same LBJ who, in 1964 *said, "I'll not send your boys to fight in an Asian war." *About one year after his reelection, he did.
This does not make any sense. Please give me a source for the quote. The 'boys' were already over there when JFK was assassinated. When things were not going well LBJ did not even run in 1968. *He handed the keys over to Nixon and Nixon continued to escalate the war.

When McGovern ran in 1972 he was the first Candidate that stepped forward to say the war was a mistake.

Eagle, are you telling me that you voted for McGovern because you too did not want our boys dying in Vietnam? *I know I voted for McGovern, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you didn't.

So Eagle, you can't have it both ways. Either you were for the war and voted for Nixon, or against the war and voted for McGovern.

If you are going to chastise a political figure for the same beliefs that you had at the time. Then surely you can see how absurd your post was.
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 04:27 PM   #6
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

I didn't agree with Barry Goldwater on very many issues, but I think I would be likely to vote for him if he was running today. He clearly had integrity and a mind of his own. He didn't have to take 10 polls to decide what he thought about a topic. Of course Arizona has a pretty good Republican Senator today who appears to be from that same mold.
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 04:30 PM   #7
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Quote:
This does not make any sense. Please give me a source for the quote. The 'boys' were already over there when JFK was assassinated.
Only *a few, Cut-Throat, and they were elite troops (Special Forces), advisors, etc. Regular Army was first used in Viet-nam on LBJ's watch, in 1965.

Right after Dien Bien Phu in 1954, CIA and OSS were all over there. But no regular army, and the numbers were small. " In Jan 1961, when Kennedy took over, there were 800 Americans on duty in Viet-nam., By 11/63 at his assasination, there were 16,700."

The draft was already in place but hadn't been needed since Korea. This is from Encarta-"in 1965 about 20,000 men per month were inducted into the military, most into the Army; by 1968 about 40,000 young men were drafted each month to meet increased troop levels ordered for Vietnam."

On a personal level, I graduated from college in 1962, and no-one was even thinking about the draft. I had a friend who was ROTC who was going to Fort Bragg for Special Forces, and after his training he went on to Viet-Nam.

Nixon continued the escalation, but no way was this his war.

Mikey



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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 05:21 PM   #8
 
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Quote:
Nixon continued the escalation, but no way was this his war.
No doubt about Milkey. But. I'd still like to see the whole quote, and not the snippet that may have been taken out of context.

- My main point was that I'm guessing that Eagle43 was not an anti-war protester back in 1965. In fact he was probably one of the guys goading LBJ to go 'kick their asses'. So my question was is Eagle43 complaining that LBJ did not keep his campaign promise or that he catered to the war mongers? Looks like Eagle43 would have been complaining no matter what LBJ did.



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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 05:55 PM   #9
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Anybody remember "Tonkin Gulf" ? That farce
occurred on LBJ's watch ..... gave him the excuse
he needed. About like the "Battleship Main"
incident that started the Spanish-American War.

He was the last Democrat I voted for ..... "Landslide
Lindon" was his nick-name in Texas. He was rude
and crude and the best arm-twister the Senate
has ever experienced.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 06:21 PM   #10
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Cut-Throat

Do a google search on LBJ and the quote and you'll find it referenced in a number of sources for LBJ's speech in Akron Ohio, Oct 1964
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 06:31 PM   #11
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

A little more specific -

The Columbia World of Quotations. 1996.


NUMBER: 31071
QUOTATION: We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10,000 miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.
ATTRIBUTION: Lyndon Baines Johnson (1908-1973), U.S. Democratic politician, president. speech, Oct. 21, 1964, Akron University, Ohio. Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States, Lyndon B. Johnson: 1963-64.
BIOGRAPHY: Columbia Encyclopedia.
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 06:40 PM   #12
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Quote:
When things were not going well LBJ did not even run in 1968.
"Lyndon B. Johnson's aide Bill Moyers has suggested that Cronkite's somber report on a visit to Vietnam influenced LBJ in deciding against running for president in 1968."

Geez, Cut-Throat, politics AND religion in the same post. I'm impressed, but I'm done with this thread now...


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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 06:56 PM   #13
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Quote:
A little more specific -

The Columbia World of Quotations. 1996.


NUMBER: 31071
QUOTATION: We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10,000 miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.
ATTRIBUTION: Lyndon Baines Johnson (1908-1973), U.S. Democratic politician, president. speech, Oct. 21, 1964, Akron University, Ohio. Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States, Lyndon B. Johnson: 1963-64.
BIOGRAPHY: Columbia Encyclopedia.
Well CutThroat, you're wrong one more time. Or as my hero RR used to say "There you go again." LBJ lied and if you read or listen to the LBJ tapes, he intentionally deceived the US voters. Now, he was a reluctant warrior, because he wanted to implement his great society, but of course you remember LBJ's preoccupation with "not being the first American president to lose a war." Find the quote yourself. He was also afraid of the Ruskies and the Chinese, and at that time, who knew. But, the fact is, he deceived the US electorate, as did FDR about WW II. Is FDR another one of your favorites. GWB, on the other hand, has been upfront about his intention. Sheeezam!

Suggest you re-read my reply. I agreed with you on the religious aspect of your post, after discussing Moyers, the infamous tv ad and LBJ deceiving the electorate.

Read my lips. I would never have voted for McGovern. The US is lucky he was never president. Unfortunately,I did vote for LBJ, but it should have been Goldwater. Again, in my original reply to your post, I lamented about the fact that Goldwater had not won, and wondered what the war would have been, had he done so.

If you even thought I was an anti-war protester, you are wrong. I was in the military, and I got sent. I would have never dreamed of protesting anything. Thought it was traitorous, at the time.

Hey Hey LBJ, How many kids have you killed today? I remember that, too, but puhleeze don't ask anyone to get the quote. Look it up your own self!

BTW C-T, nothing personal. I love arguments, errr discussions. Now I have a plane to catch, and will return in about a week. B C N U later!
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-22-2005, 07:07 PM   #14
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Briefly......I was a Goldwater supporter (surprise)
And...................I agree with Eagle 43 that GW Bush is pretty "upfront about his intentions" even though I frequently think his "intentions" are way off base.
To repeat, I don't attribute a lot of sneakiness and
stealth to Bush and his minions. I still believe they are mostly sincere. Somewhat misguided, but sincere.

JG
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-23-2005, 01:22 AM   #15
 
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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" *LBJ lied and if you read or listen to the LBJ tapes, he intentionally deceived the US voters..............
Hey Hey LBJ, How many kids have you killed today?



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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-23-2005, 03:27 AM   #16
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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Of course Arizona has a pretty good Republican Senator today who appears to be from that same mold. * *
Yes they do. Would like to see him as our President. Can McCain get nominated in his Party?
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-23-2005, 03:53 AM   #17
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

McCain has already left the GOP. Mutiny?

JG
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-23-2005, 05:16 AM   #18
 
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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*GWB, on the other hand, has been upfront about his intention. *Sheeezam!


here is your boy on Nation Building.


Quote:
Nation Building and the War in Iraq

During the 2000 campaign, George W. Bush argued against nation building and foreign military entanglements. In the second presidential debate, he said: "I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say, 'This is the way it's got to be.'"

The United States is currently involved in nation building in Iraq on a scale unseen since the years immediately following World War II.

During the 2000 election, Mr. Bush called for U.S. troops to be withdrawn from the NATO peacekeeping mission in the Balkans. His administration now cites such missions as an example of how America must "stay the course."
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-23-2005, 06:31 AM   #19
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

Recently my sister/her Mother in law went to the casino on the Muckleshoot Res out in Wa state.

Which reminds me of Goldwater and LBJ. Back when I was 21 - was chasing a hot, hot Gina Lo Labridgida look alike(aka Cathy the Muckleshoot), ace pool shooter, always carried an Ann Rand paperback. Giiving her a ride to her accounting class - she gave me a short tour of one part of the Res. along with her colorful opinion of LBJ's 'Great Society' and why Goldwater was way too liberal. She wasn't holding her breath and waiting on any 'so called liberal or conservative' - bookkeeper by day and accounting class by night at Comminity College.

Forty years have passed - nice casino according to my sister.
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater
Old 04-23-2005, 08:51 AM   #20
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Re: This used to be Conservative - Barry Goldwater

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Yes they do. Would like to see him as our President. Can McCain get nominated in his Party?

McCain 2000 is the only campaign I ever donated to. He's willing to piss off his own party to stand up for what he believes in. Too bad that pretty much kills his chances. :-/
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