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Three strikes and you're out?
Old 10-02-2011, 11:55 AM   #1
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Three strikes and you're out?

What about 65 strikes... I cannot understand how this guy was not locked up prior to say maybe the 59th arrest...

Man Arrested For 65th Time After Holding Woman And Her Children Hostage CBS Chicago
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:02 PM   #2
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Is that a real story? It was so poorly written I'm not sure. With all the typos and missing words, maybe they meant the 5th time or the 6th time and accidently hit 65 instead. I'll have to wait for follow up from a professional organization before I believe it.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:16 PM   #3
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Is that a real story? It was so poorly written I'm not sure. With all the typos and missing words, maybe they meant the 5th time or the 6th time and accidently hit 65 instead. I'll have to wait for follow up from a professional organization before I believe it.

Does this help? NBC Chicago too...doesn't seem like spell checking is a priority with news anymore.

Man Arrested for 65th Time Charged With Assault | NBC Chicago
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:35 PM   #4
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I am always bewildered whenever someone complains about 3 strikes rules because supposedly someone gets punished really badly "just for stealing a slice of pizza." Uh, no...no one is ever severely punished just for doing any one crime- it is for doing the crime on top of 2 prior crimes...just as a baseball game is not won just by laying down a bunt, a lot of other things have to happen to allow for big things to flow from singularly unimpressive events. If someone has not learned their lesson after 2 crimes, why should we believe they are rehabilitatable after 3 or 4, or 65?
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:40 PM   #5
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Because people are individuals, and each situation needs to be judged in it's own context. Three strike laws are lazy and sloppy ways of dealing with people and crime. Especially now that there are so many crimes on the books that everyone in the country is guilty of something pretty much every minute of the day. I'm not defending this guy. According to what I read he needs to be in jail. But I rank three strike laws right up there with zero tolerance policies. Just ways to avoid having to actually think.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:00 PM   #6
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Three strikes laws don't have to preclude thinking if written properly--they should just empower thinking--the sentencing judge should consider harsher punishment for repeat offenders--example- petty theft has a limited penalty--but if some guy has committed 1000 petty thefts, theft number 1001 should not have a limited penalty- that theif needs more stern punishment to accomplish at least the first two goals of a justice system and to my mind the two most important ones:
1)protect society
2)deter future crimes
3)rehabilitate criminals to be productive
4)punish bad guys
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:07 PM   #7
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Three strikes laws don't have to preclude thinking if written properly--they should just empower thinking--the sentencing judge should consider harsher punishment for repeat offenders--example- petty theft has a limited penalty--but if some guy has committed 1000 petty thefts, theft number 1001 should not have a limited penalty- that theif needs more stern punishment to accomplish at least the first two goals of a justice system and to my mind the two most important ones:
1)protect society
2)deter future crimes
3)rehabilitate criminals to be productive
4)punish bad guys
+1
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Old 10-02-2011, 04:14 PM   #8
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I am always bewildered whenever someone complains about 3 strikes rules because supposedly someone gets punished really badly "just for stealing a slice of pizza." Uh, no...no one is ever severely punished just for doing any one crime- it is for doing the crime on top of 2 prior crimes...
So you want us to understand that it's stealing that third slice of pizza which is the killer?
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Old 10-02-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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Three strike laws are lazy and sloppy ways of dealing with people and crime. . . . But I rank three strike laws right up there with zero tolerance policies. Just ways to avoid having to actually think.
Agreed, but I think most of these laws are citizen/legislature reactions to perceived lenient sentencing by judges (that is, sentencing that was too lenient for community standards). So, the judges are given discretion to a point, but when the offender commits the third offense, the iron (and dumb) hand of the community takes over. Why does a person with two strikes steal a piece of pizza, knowing the consequences in his particular case? Again, maybe a case of "We ain't in here 'cause we smart."
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:13 PM   #10
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So you want us to understand that it's stealing that third slice of pizza which is the killer?
No, of course not. It's the pattern of repeat deliberate criminal behavior, including three times being caught. Should we just allow people to steal pizza as much as they want, because it's only pizza. See how that works out. How about commit as much crime as you want, but be sure you have a hard luck story in case you get caught. I don't like the way that's working out either.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:31 PM   #11
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Again, maybe a case of "We ain't in here 'cause we smart."
Almost a winner. But it's not a matter of stupidity as much as one of anti-social behavior. Prisons have plenty of smart people, and industrious people, and even industrious smart people, but almost all of them just don't want to follow the rules of normal society.

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So you want us to understand that it's stealing that third slice of pizza which is the killer?
If it was your pizza place, and everybody got to steal one slice, how long would you be in business?
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:06 PM   #12
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See how that works out.
You tell me how it works out. You're the one who thinks we should put people in prison for stealing 3 pieces of pizza.
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If it was your pizza place, and everybody got to steal one slice, how long would you be in business?
You tell me. How long?

I'm not in retail, but I have read that retail stores do set aside part of their budgets for pilferage. Somehow, many seem to stay in business. regardless. It's not the end of the world for a pizza place if occasionally someone steals a piece of pizza. It's just not.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:41 PM   #13
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It's not the end of the world for a pizza place if occasionally someone steals a piece of pizza. It's just not.
No, but it is the end of the world if we allow people who are inclined to steal (and rob and assault and murder) do crime with little to no repercussions. I'd be happy with laws that put habitual repeat offenders away for longer periods, including life for those who seem irredeemable. But the justice system hasn't had much success with that either, so public outcry has resulted in some rather blunt tools with three strikes laws. They aren't perfect. I'd like them to be improved. But in the meantime, I'm not willing to abandon them because sometimes a third strike might be a lesser crime. If you cannot restrain yourself after two convictions, my tolerance of criminal behavior is greatly reduced. That's a pattern and I don't think we should have to wait until the third crime is a murder to lock the habitual repeat offender where he can no longer prey on society. Pizza or not.

By the way, third strike laws are usually for three felonies, so misdemeanor swiping of pizza would not count. I assume you are using that for argument's sake.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:06 PM   #14
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I'm not in retail, but I have read that retail stores do set aside part of their budgets for pilferage. Somehow, many seem to stay in business. regardless. It's not the end of the world for a pizza place if occasionally someone steals a piece of pizza. It's just not.
All those stolen goodies add up after a while. U.S. retailers lost an estimated $40 Billion in 2010, that's 1.5% of total retail sales. Tack on the added expense of all the anti-theft devices the stores buy and maintain, and it does add up to a significant expense.

It's not the end of the world to steal a piece of pizza. But most honest people are tired of paying the bills for the dishonest ones.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:44 PM   #15
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All those stolen goodies add up after a while. U.S. retailers lost an estimated $40 Billion in 2010, that's 1.5% of total retail sales. Tack on the added expense of all the anti-theft devices the stores buy and maintain, and it does add up to a significant expense.

It's not the end of the world to steal a piece of pizza. But most honest people are tired of paying the bills for the dishonest ones.
I can stand the judicial system going soft on crime, but I also can't stand have to spend a bunch of tax payer dollars incarcerating these criminals. A good public caning session would solve both problems. I never been hit with one of those canes but I bet after 3 swats your backside would be telling your fingers to quit taking stuff that's not yours! I know, send me back to the middle ages where I belong.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:52 PM   #16
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I can stand the judicial system going soft on crime, but I also can't stand have to spend a bunch of tax payer dollars incarcerating these criminals. A good public caning session would solve both problems. I never been hit with one of those canes but I bet after 3 swats your backside would be telling your fingers to quit taking stuff that's not yours! I know, send me back to the middle ages where I belong.
Me too! I couldn't agree more. Alternately, isolate them in a barbed wire surrounded region carved out of some of the northern/midwestern states and let them establish their own government there.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:41 PM   #17
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We should get all the "victimless" criminals out of the prisons. Either decriminalize the act or slap a transponder on their ankle and put them under house arrest and let them feed themselves. Save the prisons for those that really deserve it and are worth us taxpayer's funding to keep them out of society.

As for the multiple offender's, too many people, including a lot of judges, seem to have forgotten what the term "victim" means. It's not the child molester or knife wielding nut job whose mommy and daddy didn't love them enough. I respect due process, but you have to balance that with public safety. I think you get enough of these criminals in front of you and here the ridiculous excuses and reasoning their attorney's spew and some people just start to feel for them and forget the criminal justice system is as much about punishing/rehabilitating the criminal as it is about protecting society from them.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:15 PM   #18
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Alternately, isolate them in a barbed wire surrounded region carved out of some of the northern/midwestern states and let them establish their own government there.
I think I've stumbled into a nest of Heinlein fans. Heinlein wrote Coventry (short story) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
about such a place, and he also imagined that public whippings would be reinstated in his novel that was made into that awful movie about the alien spiders, with Casper van Dien. (Edit: That was Starship Troopers.)
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:37 PM   #19
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By the way, third strike laws are usually for three felonies, so misdemeanor swiping of pizza would not count. I assume you are using that for argument's sake.
I was continuing the pizza example given by urn2bfree in post #4 of this thread.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:47 PM   #20
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I think I've stumbled into a nest of Heinlein fans. Heinlein wrote Coventry (short story) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
about such a place, and he also imagined that public whippings would be reinstated in his novel that was made into that awful movie about the alien spiders, with Casper van Dien. (Edit: That was Starship Troopers.)
Actually, yes... that must be where I got the idea. For some time I had a complete collection of Heinlein books and had read most of them multiple times. Starship Troopers was one of my favorites. Never saw the movie.

I also liked Hawksbill Station by Robert Silverberg. This was the one in which criminals were time-traveled back to the pre-Cambrian, where they were left to survive on a nice diet of trilobites and the like.
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