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Old 10-17-2015, 12:59 PM   #41
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They simply have to relocate to less expensive areas. For the same money, they can have open space and better housing than getting crowded in inner cities. We cannot keep subsidizing people to pile on top of one another.
The $400K Habitat for Humanity homes weren't in San Francisco. They were an hour out in the 'burbs.

The area needs more than software developers to thrive long term. Teachers should be able to live near where they teach without a 2 hour commute each way. The housing shortage is part due to geography (lots of water and mountains not suitable for building) but also in large part due to man made building restrictions, including out dated restrictions on backyard cottages which can be changed and updated.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:23 PM   #42
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The $400K Habitat for Humanity homes weren't in San Francisco. They were an hour out in the 'burbs.
Man, that makes it a whole lot worse. In a recent RV trip, I drove out of the SF area on I-580. Traffic was jam-packed way past Livermore, up till Tracy.

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The area needs more than software developers to thrive long term. Teachers should be able to live near where they teach without a 2 hour commute each way...
I agree. If I were a teacher, I would say "To hell with it", pack up and move.

The article you reference says:
Redfin reported that there wasn’t a single home for sale in San Francisco that a teacher making that average salary could afford. In San Mateo County, 1.2 percent of homes — one in 80 — were affordable for teachers; in Santa Clara County, the number was 1.3 percent...

If a Bay Area tech company needs to set up a server farm, they could, say, open it in a less expensive mid-sized city, like Bend, Oregon. But a Bay Area school has no such luxury...
Obviously, they do not value teachers enough. And there are other jobs that pay even less, I am sure. So, more reason for people to vote with their feet. Let the children of those highly-paid high-tech workers be untaught, their fancy cars not repaired, their expensive homes not maintained, their garbage not collected. Or should their companies and the high-tech workers get taxed enough so that they will move to Bend, Oregon? Of course the cities and the state do not want to chase these high-tech companies away.

And not all high-tech workers can afford multi-million-dollar homes. My brother left Google, and they tried to get him back with more stock options. After debating the pro and con, he declined. The extra pay was nowhere near enough for him to get a house that he wanted. It would be a decline in standard of living for his entire family in exchange for a bragging right. Many workers would love to get a chance to work at Google even if they had to rent a room from someone, or jam the family into a tiny old home. Not my brother.

In the end, it's up to the individuals to do what is best for themselves.
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:22 PM   #43
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In the end, it's up to the individuals to do what is best for themselves.
That is one way of looking at it. I think modernizing the man made building restrictions and developing more affordable housing solutions may be a bit more pragmatic than forcing all the teachers and middle class families who may have grown up here and never lived any place else to move away.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:05 PM   #44
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No, I was not advocating "forcing out" anybody but rather describing the truth that growth cannot go unchecked. Please let me elaborate further.

People crowd into some places for certain reasons: weather, job availability, cultural attractiveness, etc... And when they do, certain negative aspects develop such as traffic jam, high cost of living, expensive home prices, rising crime rate, pollution, etc... When these drawbacks become too much, they will balance out the positive attributes of the places, and an equilibrium is reached.

If we somehow were able to combat all these negative aspects, what would happen? I myself would want to move there instead of living in this hot-as-Hades Southwest. Soon, the entire US population would be living there, and the interior of the country would be abandoned. I don't think that can work, or we can ever achieve that.

So, in order for the crowded places to stop growing or just to slow down, there has to be some negative aspects remaining. Expensive housing may just be one of the criteria to keep growth in check. If not, there has to be something else negative to keep some people out.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:50 PM   #45
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Will any of the crowded US cities become like Hong Kong, where some people are living in cages? Their 6' x 2-1/2' cage costs them $110/month in rent, and 20 of them share a dirty toilet. Showers are taken from a hose.

I suspect that these Hong Kongese do not have a choice, but think most Americans can relocate if things get so bad.

For more details, see: Hong Kong's 'caged dogs': Poverty-stricken people forced to live like animals in one of the world's wealthiest and most densely populated cities | Daily Mail Online.

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Old 10-18-2015, 12:07 PM   #46
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I get what you are saying NW-bound, but there are many low density suburbs, especially in the South Bay where many of the jobs are, compared to other major metro areas and restrictive zoning is a big part of the problem. Many feel it would make more sense to have more high density housing near where the tech hubs are located, but there is a lot of pushback from the current homeowners.

It is a complex topic, we've probably side tracked this thread enough for now.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:27 PM   #47
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Yes, it is true that there are different housing situations, and I should not be bringing Hong Kong's extreme example into this thread.

Rereading the OP's article about the town of Walsenburg allowing tiny homes being built, I found that this is really about people desiring tiny homes, and it is also not about squeezing in more smaller homes as infill in established cities.

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Cities are starting to allow zoning for Tiny Houses:
To become tiny-house-friendly, Walsenburg didn't just greenlight one subdivision. Last year, it became the first city in the state, and one of the first in the nation, to change its land use codes to allow tiny homes on any residential lot. They just have to be on a foundation, not a trailer - See more at: Walsenburg Has Big Hopes For Tiny Houses | CPR
Walsenburg is a small town of 2.3 sq.mi. with a population of 3068. That's a density of 1333/sq.mi., which is much lower than where I live (3000/sq.mi.), let alone places like Berkeley at 11,000/sq.mi, or San Francisco at 16,000/sq.mi.

So, space is not at all a problem in Walsenburg. Nor is housing cost. I looked on Zillow and saw a home of 2740 sq.ft. for $200K. There are plenty of homes under $100K. Land goes for about $40K for a 40-acre lot! You are now permitted to build a tiny home on a HUGE lot or more like a ranch, although the article talks of turning a high school football field into a subdivision of tiny homes. That's 28 homes on 3 acres or 1/10 acre per home.
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:52 PM   #48
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Rereading the OP's article about the town of Walsenburg allowing tiny homes being built, I found that this is really about people desiring tiny homes, and it is also not about squeezing in more smaller homes as infill in established cities.

Walsenburg is a small town of 2.3 sq.mi. with a population of 3068. That's a density of 1333/sq.mi., which is much lower than where I live (3000/sq.mi.), let alone places like Berkeley at 11,000/sq.mi, or San Francisco at 16,000/sq.mi.

So, space is not at all a problem in Walsenburg. Nor is housing cost. I looked on Zillow and saw a home of 2740 sq.ft. for $200K. There are plenty of homes under $100K. Land goes for about $40K for a 40-acre lot! You are now permitted to build a tiny home on a HUGE lot or more like a ranch, although the article talks of turning a high school football field into a subdivision of tiny homes. That's 28 homes on 3 acres or 1/10 acre per home.
For what it's worth, the median household income (2013) in Walsenberg was $28,217 with an unemployment rate (2015) of 7.4%. It's not a rich area, as you noted with the property prices.

But the point others here brought up about the efficiency of modern manufactured housing versus the tiny homes is a good one. I can't imagine picking a tiny house on wheels over a nice trailer with 3 popouts and a porch tarp. In Walsenberg, it appears that they don't want a trailer park, but little cabin style buildings with no wheels.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:44 AM   #49
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What's the difference between a 'Tiny Home' as seen on TV and an illegal squatters shack?
" a Tiny Houses project being built under the auspices of advocates from Denver Homeless Out Loud, was raided by the Denver Police Department.Ten activists were arrested and the encampment was dismantled."
Tiny Houses Project at Sustainability Park Raided by Cops, Ten Arrested | Westword
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:54 AM   #50
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I saw this article the other day. i think it is an interesting idea.... perhaps even an investment opportunity to "build" an apartment unit for rental.

Stackable, Portable Apartments Are Tiny Homes for the Homeless
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Old 10-30-2015, 03:42 PM   #51
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I saw this article the other day. i think it is an interesting idea.... perhaps even an investment opportunity to "build" an apartment unit for rental.

Stackable, Portable Apartments Are Tiny Homes for the Homeless

and if you don't stack them, they become Granny Pods
https://seniorcareadvice.com/my-moth...-evolution.htm
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:23 PM   #52
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Here something different: 'housetruck'
"It’s easier to say what a housetruck isn’t than what it is: It definitely is not a motorhome or any other commercially produced camper. When Beck moved into his housetruck, motorhomes—or what he describes as “monster, marathon, glitzy, whore house-looking buses”—didn’t exist."

Look at These Adorable Tiny Homes on Wheels Called 'Housetrucks' | Atlas Obscura
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:20 PM   #53
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Fermion, a forum member, has built his own housetruck and will be living in it full-time.


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A little update. We have taken a couple of trips now in our homebuilt RV truck camper. It drives great and is getting around 10mpg which is better than I thought considering we are usually tipping the scales at 16,000 pounds or better.

Recently we unloaded the pods in our backyard and took the truck in for full service. While we had the pods off, we decided to remove all of the old flatbed wood and we only added back three new pieces of apitong hardwood. We calculate we have saved over 600 pounds doing this and the pods are still fully supported and do not shift or slide. Slight downside that now the flatbed has openings but it is still pretty usable as a flatbed for hauling things. We could always toss some temporary 4x8 sheets of ply across it if we needed a solid bed for something. My wife has already calculated 600 more pounds of stuff we can take on our journeys .

Last week we took the truck camper to Mount St Helens. This is a great time of year to go as there are near zero crowds. We stayed at the Lower Falls campground on Lewis river and road our motorcycles on a beautiful route right up to the crater. Coming back from Helens we decided spur of the moment to detour over to Long Beach, WA for a couple of nights on the beach. We rode the motorcycles some 20 miles right on the beach (this is legal!) then washed them off very well . Yay for ER to let you take those roads less traveled...it makes all the difference.









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Old 11-02-2015, 10:27 PM   #54
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Here's the ultimate housetruck for the rich. This 8x8 Desert Challenger costs US$1.75M.


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Old 11-03-2015, 05:32 AM   #55
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Sorry, $1.75 million in that would throw my AA out of whack.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:22 AM   #56
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Sorry, $1.75 million in that would throw my AA out of whack.
1.75 million is twice my entire stash! I think I'll be looking for an older Class C in reasonable shape when my tiny house on wheels time comes................
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:28 PM   #57
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Here something different: 'housetruck'
"It’s easier to say what a housetruck isn’t than what it is: It definitely is not a motorhome or any other commercially produced camper. When Beck moved into his housetruck, motorhomes—or what he describes as “monster, marathon, glitzy, whore house-looking buses”—didn’t exist."

Look at These Adorable Tiny Homes on Wheels Called &#39;Housetrucks&#39; | Atlas Obscura
Saw a version of one of these "tiny homes on wheels" in a Corps of Engineers park a couple of weeks ago. Looked to be custom built on a flat-bed trailer.
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:38 PM   #58
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Something like that looks good as long as you don't have to travel with it very often or very far... sort of like a mobile home but much nicer and easier to move.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:13 PM   #59
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Apparently some places in Colorado are not tiny house friendly.

My Niece and her boyfriend evicted

Tiny House Eviction
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:31 PM   #60
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I am not surprised that they got evicted from a home backyard. But not allowed in a regular RV park?

Then, I recall that some commercial RV parks ban van or bus conversions, or home-built RV's. Some do look strange, like the one in the photo I link to below. They want to have conformity. It's too bad that they will not make exceptions for a well-built and good-looking home-on-wheel.

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