Tipping

[Orchidflower]

Okay, so the majority here don't like tipping; however, the custom is for the company/restaurant/whatever to pay minimum wage and the servers earn their money thru tips. It seems unfair and mean spirited, to me, to give less than 15-20% or more to those hardworking service people who use our tips to LIVE on. Good grief...I'm not that anal yet.
I'm with Want2retire, I have given 10% or less for crappy service, but have given 50% even to those who deserved it...because, I, too, remember what it was like to be a service person in years way past.
And, for those of you who don't tip, I've avoid going back to the same restaurant if you leave no tip or a really crappy one. Restaurant people have a tendency to get you back in some pretty disgusting ways (unless you're into eating others boogers and nose hairs, for instance).

[Khan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orchidflower Okay, so the majority here don't like tipping; however, the custom is for the company/restaurant/whatever to pay minimum wage and the servers earn their money thru tips. It seems unfair and mean spirited, to me, to give less than 15-20% or more to those hardworking service people who use our tips to LIVE on. Good grief...I'm not that anal yet. I'm with Want2retire, I have given 10% or less for crappy service, but have given 50% even to those who deserved it...because, I, too, remember what it was like to be a service person in years way past. And, for those of you who don't tip, I've avoid going back to the same restaurant if you leave no tip or a really crappy one. Restaurant people have a tendency to get you back in some pretty disgusting ways (unless you're into eating others boogers and nose hairs, for instance).

Servers can be paid less than minimum wage, as it is assumed the difference will be made up in tips. Also, taxes are deducted assuming a certain percent of tips is added to base pay.

[W2R]

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Originally Posted by Orchidflower I'm with Want2retire, I have given 10% or less for crappy service, but have given 50% even to those who deserved it...because, I, too, remember what it was like to be a service person in years way past.

To be clear/honest, I have never been a waitress. But I remember how miserable it was when I had equally low paying work, even though I didn't have to stand on my feet all day long like waitresses do!

[SecondCor521]

Grizz,

You've hit on something else I've noticed. When I was a kid, you tipped waitstaff in sit-down restaurants only; 10% was typical, 15% was generous. Now, as someone else noted, it's 15% = typical, 20%+ = generous.

But a larger change is in who is now tipped or expecting tips. I've seen people suggest tipping the mailperson, the garbage collector, the paper boy, the hair stylist, the person who does your nails, taxicab drivers, porters, shuttle bus drivers, etc., etc. etc.

To me this just makes it more confusing. I'd like to return to where you paid someone $X for doing Y and a tip was an unexpected and appreciated bonus.

2Cor521

[megacorp-firee]

I'm a 15%er ... if the service was extra attentive (i.e. to my liking, not overbearing), I go to 20%.
I love it overseas in countries where there is no tipping custom. Even when they add a service charge, it is usually 10%.

[EarlyRetiree1978]

In some places tips are becoming a must unfortunately. When I went to a couple Clubs/Bars in DC/MD/VA and only left the standard 15% tip I would later come back for a drink at the bar and have to wait an eternity. I decided to do what a friend does and I would then start getting pointed out from a crowd for my drink orders. I would tip heavy (50%-75%) the first time or two and from there on out the crew would remember me. It’s a pity I had to do this though because otherwise I might still be standing there waiting for a drink.

[podey]

I live in NYC and the norm for dinner is around 20%. I rarely go above this and give around 10% is the service was bad. If it's a bar that I frequent where i tend to sit at the bar and chat up the bartender and they are giving me every other drink free, then i tip much more heavily. Believe me, they remember and it makes the experience all the more enjoyable.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondCor521 But a larger change is in who is now tipped or expecting tips. I've seen people suggest tipping the mailperson, the garbage collector, the paper boy, the hair stylist, the person who does your nails, taxicab drivers, porters, shuttle bus drivers, etc., etc. etc.

I have always tipped the hair stylist, porters, and taxicab drivers. My parents (born in 1909) taught me to always do that. I first tipped a taxicab driver when I was 8, the first time I took a cab alone. My parents are dead now, and I still tip.

After Katrina, the garbage collectors were taking bribes to collect garbage. They'd drive up and down the block and ask people who flagged them down how much it was worth to them. Even though we hadn't had any collected for a couple of months, and things were getting pretty desperate, I don't think anybody caved in to that particular shake-down, though, since nothing was collected. Anyway I think they forfeited any future tips after that.

[HFWR]

I've noticed that the "entertainers" in "gentlemen's clubs" give much better "service" to big tippers...

[CuppaJoe]

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 Grizz, ...I've seen people suggest tipping the mailperson, the garbage collector, the paper boy, the hair stylist, the person who does your nails, taxicab drivers, porters, shuttle bus drivers, etc., etc. etc.... 2Cor521

Had to erase what I wrote. G*d, I hope my attitude improves after retirement. What Want2Retire said. It is customary.

[Sweetlip]

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Originally Posted by saluki9 Wow, that's interesting math! Did you by any chance work for the government?

That reminds me of the old joke...

Question: How many people work in the government?

Answer: Oh - about half of them.

[Sweetlip]

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Originally Posted by youbet the fact that you're confused by the arithmetic of calculating a tip explains why you would say this

Ah well - perhaps in my arithmetic classes, I was in that half of the class that made the top half possible ....


... but the principle remains the same. I read so much in these pages about early retirement being based on living below one's means and saving enough money to get out of the workforce as soon as possible but then I read of the illogic of being told that the bill for something like a meal may be $100 but people decide that is not good enough and decide to pay $115 or $120 or maybe even $150.


What the ?


If you don't like the meal, can you then say to the waiter that the meal was not as good as you thought it should be and therefore you will only pay 75% without being carted off to jail? A bit like a school exam really - award $ for every service or product according to how much you thought that the end to end delivery of that service or product was. It is like the teacher must award a set mark to any student who completes the test paper irrespective of whether they got all the answers right or maybe just 80% of them and will then allow extra marks if the writing was neat. It wasn't like that when I went to university.


No? Well maybe the consumer is being treated like a sucker if it does not work both ways. As a customer, I want an end price. I don't want to subdivide the price and award different prices for different parts - viz, so much for the meal and so much for the waiter. That is the restauranteur's problem not mine. I just want to know the price without confusion at the time of entering into the contract to buy the meal.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by Sweetlip ... but the principle remains the same. I read so much in these pages about early retirement being based on living below one's means and saving enough money to get out of the workforce as soon as possible but then I read of the illogic of being told that the bill for something like a meal may be $100 but people decide that is not good enough and decide to pay $115 or $120 or maybe even $150.

because we're accustomed to doing the math, we know about what to expect the total bill, with tip, to be when we enter a particular restaurant. The tip isn't a surprise extra we weren't expecting and budgeting for......

Quote:

If you don't like the meal, can you then say to the waiter that the meal was not as good as you thought it should be and therefore you will only pay 75%

No, just as in your country the price of the meal is the price of the meal. But if service doesn't meet expectations, you can leave zero tip and I've done that. I'm not a big fan of the tipping custom but have to admit that when traveling in other parts of the world where tipping is not customary, I've felt a little powerless to express my dissatisfaction when service was not up to expectation.

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I just want to know the price without confusion at the time of entering into the contract to buy the meal.

I understand your issue with the arithmetic, but we're used to it and a glance at the menu tells me fairly accurately where the final bill (including extras like cocktail, wine, dessert, tip, etc.) will be.

Again, since you're not doing it frequently, I understand your problem with the arithmetic. But it's not really that big of a deal.

In your part of the world, Australia I believe, are meals lump-sum priced with beverage, dessert, tax, etc. all included so that nothing is added to confuse you?

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by HFWR I've noticed that the "entertainers" in "gentlemen's clubs" give much better "service" to big tippers...

In Australia they're paid a good wage and no tipping is necessary or expected. They "service" everyone the same. The lines can get pretty long, but at least you don't have to worry about the embarrassment of struggling with the arithmetic.......

[SecondCor521]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want2retire I have always tipped the hair stylist, porters, and taxicab drivers. My parents (born in 1909) taught me to always do that. I first tipped a taxicab driver when I was 8, the first time I took a cab alone. My parents are dead now, and I still tip. After Katrina, the garbage collectors were taking bribes to collect garbage. They'd drive up and down the block and ask people who flagged them down how much it was worth to them. Even though we hadn't had any collected for a couple of months, and things were getting pretty desperate, I don't think anybody caved in to that particular shake-down, though, since nothing was collected. Anyway I think they forfeited any future tips after that.

Interesting. I wonder if tipping customs vary from family to family or region to region within the US, or if I unwittingly grew up in a cheapskate family.

I never saw my Dad tip for a haircut and I never did until I went off to college on the East Coast and discovered it was sort of customary in that town. I think I tipped $1 or $2 on a $10 haircut. I cut my own hair now so no tipping there now.

I never use porters/bellhops/etc. now. Carry my own.

I did tip taxi drivers when I used them, again on the East Coast.

I've never tipped the garbage man or the mail folks, and I've never heard of anyone around here (Idaho) that does.

I don't get the newspaper or get my nails done.

I have tipped movers before.

I will tip in a sit down restaurant with servers but not in a fast food or takeout or counter-restaurant situation (like a Starbucks or a Papa Murphy's).

2Cor521

[thefed]

im a regular at a sports bar near the cav's arena...we have 30+ tickets/year, so we tip really well. after a few visits, they remembered us, and began giving us free drinks. now, we usually get about 4 free drinks ($20-$25 value)and leave maybe 15 on a $40 bill. The free drinks are still comin...so they must appreciate it.

[CuppaJoe]

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Originally Posted by thefed im a regular at a sports bar near the cav's arena...we have 30+ tickets/year, so we tip really well. after a few visits, they remembered us, and began giving us free drinks. now, we usually get about 4 free drinks ($20-$25 value)and leave maybe 15 on a $40 bill. The free drinks are still comin...so they must appreciate it.

It's not just about the tipping. Back in the '80s when I worked a lot of overtime, we ate out a lot at a nice French place. I never tipped more than 15%. We often went on slow nights like Tues. or Wed. and one time, there was a drunk seated alone next to us. The host who we knew very well by then, encouraged us to bear with it. We did and talked to the drunk obnoxious guy as much as we could stand. After the guy left, the host thanked up profusely. Every once in a while we would go there on a Sat. or holiday, there would be a long line to get in, and I would always say, "we should have made a reservation." The host would ask if we had one, would disappear for about a 1/2 second, come back and motion to us. Those waiting would always point at us and say, "they don't have a reservation...." It was really nice, and I don't think I will ever be treated so well again.

[Dreamer]

I would prefer that prices be higher and no tipping. I usually tip around 15%. I usually tip the same as most people here, although I have never tipped a garbage person or mail person. I am surprised to see that no one mentioned tipping the maid at the hotel. Am I the only person who tips the maid at a hotel? Also, just thinking aloud, I wonder why America does not tip at your normal fast food restaurant, such as McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell? My DD worked at Taco Bell for a little over a year and was a struggling college student. She mostly took your order and told you the amount and gave you your change. On occasion, she would help to cook it and get your drinks. She would empty trash and straighten up in the seating area at times also. Actually, thinking about it, she did more for the customer than I did when I waitressed at a sit down restaurant many, many moons ago (late teens).

I thought that it was interesting reading the comments about tipping the bartenders well and then receiving free drinks. I doubt that the bartenders own the bar and therefore are actually stealing the liquor from their employer in order to make more money for themselves. If one did the same thing at an electronics store and tipped the employee very well and the employee then gave them a free item, such as a tv or a radio, would that not be considered stealing by all?

I don't know how America became so accustomed to tipping, but I think that it is definitely here to stay. I don't think that it is right that employers are allowed to get away with not paying their employees at least the minimum wage. I also feel that the minimum wage should be raised to a decent wage.

[Sweetlip]

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Originally Posted by youbet In your part of the world, Australia I believe, are meals lump-sum priced with beverage, dessert, tax, etc. all included so that nothing is added to confuse you?

Yes, that is correct.

I met a retired American couple in Melbourne some years ago who thought that it was simply wonderful that when you booked a hotel room here, the price quoted was what you paid. That is, there was not an additional tax component that apparently gets added in the USA. Meals or mini-bar or laundry and similar extra services are added into the bill when you check out of course (unless breakfast is part of the deal, which it sometimes is) but our GST (Goods and Services Tax = 10%) is always part of the quoted price - I think that by law it has to be but I am not sure. You will not see a gratuity or service fee shown on any Aussie hotel bill or restaurant bill that I am aware of.


There are some high profile Americans currently in Australia who say that we pay too much tax but I don't know how we really compare with other countries. For instance, we have a health care levy in our income tax that covers universal health care for all so health care costs are much less of an issue for Aussies than in your country. Health care is not an issue for employment contracts and a concern that you folks seem to have when you retire or change employers. We have a Federal government which has the taxing power including income tax and the sales tax (GST) but the GST is passed onto the State Governments. Local government makes its money out of rates (land taxes and water charges). State and local government also raise revenue for user pays services such as motor vehicle registration (state govt) and building fees, advertising signage permits etc.

Company tax is paid only once so that it is good for a person to hold stocks as the dividends are not taxed because tax has already been paid on the company profits and at a lower rate than the upper marginal rates of income tax.

So you are correct when you say that I would stumble with the tipping arithmetic if I lived in your country because we just don't tip and whilst no country's tax system is simple, ours is simple enough for me to do my own tax return online every year. So simple is good.

I have made one business trip to the USA a few years ago and whilst I thought that I was tipping to the accepted rate (15% at restaurants and $1 per bag to hotel porters and taxi drivers (often for hardly any effort of their part), I never experienced even the slightest show of gratitude from these people nor any extra service that I could identify. Towards the end of that trip though, I discovered the ideal solution to my problem, I just asked the taxi drivers how much tip they wanted. It was usually less than I had anticipated.

Likewise in London, I recall giving a taxi driver a good but not unreasonable tip and he told me that it was too much and gave me some back.


I drove a taxi when I was a university student in the 1970's with a family and mortgage to support and I do recall getting some tips but they were mostly just rounding up amounts. Any tips that I did receive bore no relation to the service that I gave as I learnt early in my taxi driving career that there was a lot less customer hassles if I greeted each customer very cheerfully and did unto them as I would have them do unto me. If I was too silent on a journey, that was sometimes a signal to a misfit passenger that I was worthy of abuse or physical attack (I had my hair set alight on one occasion and was bashed over the head with an arm in a plaster cast on another). So my desire to give good service had nothing to do with tips.


In hindsight, when I travelled to America, I should have tipped extremely generously because I still have hundreds of USA dollars left over from that trip sitting in an old wallet here somewhere and at that time the Aussie dollar could only have bought 48 cents US whereas now it will buy 95 cents so my unspent US dollars have pretty well halved in value since that time. I should have tipped a lot more!

[Sweetlip]

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Originally Posted by Dreamer I am surprised to see that no one mentioned tipping the maid at the hotel. Am I the only person who tips the maid at a hotel?

I have tipped the housemaid at my hotel in Hanoi, Vietnam because the room was kept so immaculately clean and I know that the Vietnamese earn very poor wages.

In Australia however, I have never tipped house maids but I have often left a little "thank you" note scribbled on the back of my business card or on hotel paper with my business card attached in the room on my last day in a hotel.

As a regular guest of the some hotels in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, I have been very pleasantly surprised at what returns that little bit of scribbled gratitude has earned me after I started doing it. Money, after all, is a poor substitute for a simple genuine note of thanks for keeping the room so clean. It was not unusual for me to find extra chocolate mints on my pillow at night, or a little bottle of wine or to receive Christmas cards signed by all the staff at a hotel. Good hotels will do these little niceties for their regulars every now and then but I noticed that after leaving a few thank you notes, the frequency of these things increased quite a bit.

I unconsciously gave a tip to housemaids at my London Hotel in Piccadilly once though...

Being an untidy person, it has always been not unusual for me to empty out my pockets on a bedside table in an Aussie hotel and find nothing touched by housemaid staff unless only to tidy it up a bit. This would often include a pocketful of change that I would just leave lying there and in 100% of times in Australia, it was never touched. When I did the same in London though on my first day there, I returned to my hotel in the evening to find that all the change had disappeared. I just reasoned at the time that London housemaids must have thought that that was my way of tipping them.


I found that Londoners have no idea of what good service means, BTW. Even on British Airways. It seems that they equate service with servility. Now Singapore Airlines - well that is another story ...






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