Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Tipping
Old 05-04-2008, 04:10 AM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
Sweetlip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65
Tipping

Us Aussies don't understand tipping. In Australia, the minimum wage laws are such that tipping is not expected albeit no one ever says no to a tip in a taxi or restaurant.

...but as for tipping drink waiters or hairdressers, that would be weird in our culture.

So you might like to see this article by a globe-trotting Aussie journalist mystified by the confusing phenomenon of tipping, which is something that always seems to me to be a condescending act of largesse in the absence of fair wage laws that treat people as worthy of fair and reasonable wages and not humiliating charity.

Tipping point - Tips - Travel - smh.com.au
__________________

__________________
Sweetlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-04-2008, 08:31 AM   #2
Recycles dryer sheets
two4theroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 216
I agree. This is one of my pet peeves.
Fair wages should be paid to people by their employers. The customers should not be expected to pay for good service but should expect that the employer will hire and maintain (PAY)people who serve their business and customers well.
The argument I have heard is that then the business would have to raise their prices. So be it. It would be equal expense to all and no more groveling for tips.
I do tip as things are the way they are in America but I long for the day that it is outlawed in favor of fair wages for all.
I have seen an American Airlines baggage handler at Las Vegas airport chase people who were in front of me down because they did not tip him for moving a bag less than 10 feet from the scale to the cart and berate them loudly, then threaten to LOSE the luggage. I took his name and wrote to the airline and received a canned so sorry you had to see that letter, we will speak to all and try to do better. A few months later on another trip I saw the same man doing the same thing.
Then there are bus drivers on shuttle busses who stand outside the bus and loudly grade the passengers according to what percent left a tip! He only moved the bags 3 feet!
Nazi tactics, embarrass people into tipping.......
I also detest the latest fad of the waiter who SITS down at my table to converse with me before we order in order to be my friend and let me know how much they care that I have a rewarding pleasant dining experience with them...... PUH LEASE!
The list goes on and on.
We should put a stop to it but I do not know how.
Crawling down off the soap box now......
2fer
__________________

__________________
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.<br />-Robert A. Heinlein
two4theroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 10:07 AM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,598
That is why I endeavor to NEVER put MYSELF in a "tipping environment". To me it is a stupid custom. However, when I find myself in a "tipping" situation, by someone else's doing, I just "grin and bear it" and plunk down the usual 10 or 15%.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
OAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 12:19 PM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
mn54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: mpls, mn
Posts: 440
What do you do when you get poor service? Do you leave no tip? A nominal tip, such as a penny or dime to let them know you did not forget to tip, or do you succumb to the social pressure and leave a 10 to 15 percent tip anyway figuring your server was just having a bad day?
__________________
mn54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 01:06 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,880
Tipping also drives me nuts.

Last year we were on a cruise to (actually, from) Alaska and we had a $10 per person "tip" added each day to our shipboard bill (I believe that was the amount). The "tip" paid for the room steward and the dining room waiters, food prep and buffet folks. All provided wonderful service that was worth $20 a day for us, I guess. BUT why call it a gratuity? Why not a service charge? I inquired at the Bursar's office about this and was advised that I could request that none of these folks get tipped by me (they would just wipe it out) however they would not receive pay for providing us service. Guilt trip stuff, for sure, so I took no action and let them charge us $140 for the 7 days (even though day seven was just eating breakfast and getting off of the boat in Vancouver and day one was just getting on board and finding our cabin and having a late meal @ the buffet.)

Why tip a guy that you hire to drive you from point A to point B in the city? You already have to pay a high fee. Why pay a barber an extra buck or so just because he has done what he has advertised he would do? Why are you expected to tip the cute girl in the low-cut outfit at the casino that delivers "free" drinks to you as you lose your hard-earned cash? I guess it is something called "our culture", but I'll be damned if I know how it all started.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 04:32 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
I just "grin and bear it" and plunk down the usual 10 or 15%.
RWood, that level will now subject you to abuse. Somehow there's inflation even in tipping percentages.. dunno how that happened. I do what you do, though, and try to put myself in "non-tipping" environments.. like outside the US borders!!

When I visit my mom, she does like to take us out, and the level of aggressive server "niceness" (read: constant harrassment and annoyance) gets worse and worse. The "what to tip" moment always (to me) ends the meal on a negative note.. even if the service was good and I plan to leave a healthy tip. I just don't like to have to figure it out, and would rather just pay what is written on the check. If the service is poor, there's always the option of speaking to the mgr.

There's a site called "bitter waitress" that is an eye-opener. Even this site bears out that the majority of customers are either habitually good tippers or habitually bad tippers irrespective of good/bad service, so what's the point?

The thing of them SITTING DOWN AT THE TABLE is OUTRAGEOUS!! If it were just me/DH I would get up and leave, but usually we are with friends or family, and I just sit there grinding my teeth.
__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 05:34 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina View Post
RWood, that level will now subject you to abuse. Somehow there's inflation even in tipping percentages.. dunno how that happened. I do what you do, though, and try to put myself in "non-tipping" environments.. like outside the US borders!!

When I visit my mom, she does like to take us out, and the level of aggressive server "niceness" (read: constant harrassment and annoyance) gets worse and worse. The "what to tip" moment always (to me) ends the meal on a negative note.. even if the service was good and I plan to leave a healthy tip. I just don't like to have to figure it out, and would rather just pay what is written on the check. If the service is poor, there's always the option of speaking to the mgr.

There's a site called "bitter waitress" that is an eye-opener. Even this site bears out that the majority of customers are either habitually good tippers or habitually bad tippers irrespective of good/bad service, so what's the point?

The thing of them SITTING DOWN AT THE TABLE is OUTRAGEOUS!! If it were just me/DH I would get up and leave, but usually we are with friends or family, and I just sit there grinding my teeth.
The employees are directed to do so by the managers, and will get in trouble if they don't.
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 05:49 PM   #8
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,511
I've left a penny tip twice, for being ignored.

Bearing in mind that often it is not the waiter/waitress's fault for things that happen in the kitchen. Normally I remember it is someone trying to eke out a living, that it is their "starter job", someone recovering from bad life events, etc. and/or making a legitimate effort to stay afloat in a sometimes hostile world. If they're civil, seem to be making a reasonable effort, and so on I tip the (in the U.S.) customary 15-20%.

One SIL is a waitress at a restaurant. For whatever reasons it is what she likes to do. She has stories to tell.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 05:51 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,764
I just tip 15 to 20 percent. Unless horrible service. These people are doing a job and quite a few of them are just trying to make it. I save my coldness for politics
__________________
Notmuchlonger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 06:06 PM   #10
Full time employment: Posting here.
cantlogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pocono Mtns.
Posts: 884
I despise the concept of tipping for all or the reasons already mentioned as well as the feeling that it is demeaning to have to work for a handout. Having said that, I usually tip the customary 15% when I’m not planning on returning to that restaurant and only a pittance if the service was poor. When I’m somewhere that I intend to return to I usually tip like a drunken sailor, waaaay too much. I have found that it usually improves the reception I receive on subsequent visits and that enhances my enjoyment of the experience. It can get expensive though because the tip has to be noticeably generous in order to have that effect.
__________________
cantlogin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 06:07 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,119
Meteor Chief in the third race at Saratoga!
__________________
newguy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 06:09 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantlogin View Post
I despise the concept of tipping for all or the reasons already mentioned as well as the feeling that it is demeaning to have to work for a handout. Having said that, I usually tip the customary 15% when Iím not planning on returning to that restaurant and only a pittance if the service was poor. When Iím somewhere that I intend to return to I usually tip like a drunken sailor, waaaay too much. I have found that it usually improves the reception I receive on subsequent visits and that enhances my enjoyment of the experience. It can get expensive though because the tip has to be noticeably generous in order to have that effect.

I give a healthy 20+% at a few nice places and I do like having great service from some real nice gals at the places we go to. Always great service!
__________________
newguy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 06:13 PM   #13
Full time employment: Posting here.
cantlogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pocono Mtns.
Posts: 884
20% isn't well healthy or even + if you want a good effect you got to give at least 40 or 60% or maybe even as much as half or more
__________________
cantlogin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 07:50 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,032
I tip well especially if it's a young person . I always figure they are probably working their way thru school . Hopefully I'm not suporting their drug habit .
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 10:45 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Goonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North-Central Illinois
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Bearing in mind that often it is not the waiter/waitress's fault for things that happen in the kitchen. Normally I remember it is someone trying to eke out a living, that it is their "starter job", someone recovering from bad life events, etc. and/or making a legitimate effort to stay afloat in a sometimes hostile world. If they're civil, seem to be making a reasonable effort, and so on I tip the (in the U.S.) customary 15-20%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notmuchlonger View Post
I just tip 15 to 20 percent. Unless horrible service. These people are doing a job and quite a few of them are just trying to make it. I save my coldness for politics
I always tip 15% to 20%.....at least. I figure they're out there working to make ends meet and pay bills like everyone else, and they're not just sitting around waiting for a Gubmint handout so they can sit around and continue to do nothing but wait for another Gubmint handout.

On vacations and day trips, I tip the bellmen, porters, drivers, tour guides, etc. I don't do it because I have to, I do it because I want to....because they've done things that have made my trip more enjoyable and more relaxed......I didn't have to lug our suitcases down hallways and up elevators.....I didn't have to try to drive and find a place in an unfamiliar locale, and then once I found the place, I didn't have to hunt for a parking place (in a safe area). I figure they've tried to make me happy, so I do something (tip) to try to make them happy.

IMHO, the day that I can no longer find it in my budget...or my heart....to tip, is the day I can no longer afford to travel or dine out!
__________________
Goonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 04:28 AM   #16
Recycles dryer sheets
Sweetlip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonie View Post
On vacations and day trips, I tip the bellmen, porters, drivers, tour guides, etc. I don't do it because I have to, I do it because I want to....because they've done things that have made my trip more enjoyable and more relaxed......I didn't have to lug our suitcases down hallways and up elevators.....I didn't have to try to drive and find a place in an unfamiliar locale, and then once I found the place, I didn't have to hunt for a parking place (in a safe area). I figure they've tried to make me happy, so I do something (tip) to try to make them happy.

IMHO, the day that I can no longer find it in my budget...or my heart....to tip, is the day I can no longer afford to travel or dine out!


Then again, if these people were paid a decent wage in the first place for doing what you expect of them at the establishment in which they work, wouldn't you rather avoid the confusion and pressure of trying to calculate what they should be tipped.... and wouldn't they rather avoid the patronised feeling that they get from accepting tips? Doesn't pride in one's work and self respect count for something?


Something that I don't understand also is that when people say that they tip 15% does that mean that they actually calculate the actual amount. eg a tip of 15% on a bill of say, $155, would be $23.25. Surely people don't hand over and exact extra $23.25 when they pay the bill or expect change to that tune??

Likewise, something that I have long noticed is how Americans seem to carry big wads of notes which I guess is always to have notes for tipping. What a nuisance. I worked with an American colleague here in Australia who could never understand how I travelled in airlines, taxis and dined at restaurants and stayed at hotels with porters etc every single week of my working life and on most times never carried a cent in money but always just used my corporate credit card on which, in accordance with Aussie culture, tips would never be recompensed. By comparison, my American friend always had a big roll of currency in his pocket held together with a rubber band. Give me a credit card and no tipping expectations any day.

There was a extraordinary concierge who worked in a hotel in Adelaide where I was a frequent guest who gave exceptional service to every guest and who would not accept tips. The general manager of the hotel told me once that this guy was such a feature of the hotel that the hotel paid him accordingly. He worked there for many years that I travelled to Adelaide and maybe is still there.

BTW, nowhere in any hotel of any class in Australia (my business trip stays were always at five star establishments) have I ever tipped porters for carrying my luggage from the reception desk (or front door) to my room. They get paid well enough to not have to hold their hand out.

If they were paid well enough, what becomes more important is that they are treated like equals and with courtesy. Service ≠ servile in my view.

Likewise, it seems to me that if you expect to have to hand over an extra 15 - 20% to the person who is the last little piece of the service delivery chain, it is grossly unfair to the people behind the scenes.

However, that is not the theme of this thread. Rather it is the confusion that tipping introduces into people's lives.


Worse - far worse - it mans that you will have to factor in an extra 15 - 20% into your retirement savings program before you can retire. So on a 40 year career, you would have to extend your working life by up to eight years to accommodate your tipping largesse. Where is the sense in that!
__________________
Sweetlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 09:19 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetlip View Post
Worse - far worse - it mans that you will have to factor in an extra 15 - 20% into your retirement savings program before you can retire. So on a 40 year career, you would have to extend your working life by up to eight years to accommodate your tipping largesse. Where is the sense in that!
Wow, that's interesting math! Did you by any chance work for the government?
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 09:47 AM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 316
When in high school and college I worked part time as a bag-boy in a grocery store. I earned minimum wage for the first year and not much more after that. I always wondered why my waiter friends got big tips for serving food. I was constantly taking peoples groceries out to their cars in whatever mother nature had to dish out and made pleasant small talk just like a waiter would, but no tip. Actually I lied. In 3 years I received one $1 tip and one lady gave me 2 tires that were in her trunk because the groceries wouldn't fit otherwise.

Why not tip the kid who pumps your gas? How about the carny who buckles you up on the tilt-a-whirl? There are plenty of low income earners in service industries who are trying to get through college.

I didn't know what was appropriate last Friday. I took two employees to a lunch buffet at a local pizza joint. All that our waitress did was brought our drinks. Beyond that we had to go to the trough and get our own food. When I paid, there was a spot for tip. What is appropriate? I put in about 5%. Was that an insult to the waitress or am I the only idiot who tips at a buffet?
__________________
Grizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 10:52 AM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetlip View Post
the confusion and pressure of trying to calculate what they should be tipped....
the fact that you're confused by the arithmetic of calculating a tip explains why you would say this
Quote:
Worse - far worse - it mans that you will have to factor in an extra 15 - 20% into your retirement savings program before you can retire. So on a 40 year career, you would have to extend your working life by up to eight years to accommodate your tipping largesse. Where is the sense in that!
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 11:51 AM   #20
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetlip View Post
Something that I don't understand also is that when people say that they tip 15% does that mean that they actually calculate the actual amount. eg a tip of 15% on a bill of say, $155, would be $23.25. Surely people don't hand over and exact extra $23.25 when they pay the bill or expect change to that tune??
I usually round up. In the example you gave, I would tip $24 or $25 depending on what change I had, if I planned to tip 15%.

I usually tip 15-20%, but 10% if the waiter was awful (and in that case, no rounding up - - I'd leave 10% to the penny). On occasion when the waiter went above and beyond, I have tipped up to 50%.

By nature I am pretty tight with my money, but I do tip at least to this extent because I remember what it was like to be poor and unappreciated.
__________________

__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tipping Question mickeyd Other topics 30 11-14-2007 09:23 PM
What do you think is the gasoline price tipping point? Or is there one? newguy88 FIRE and Money 11 11-07-2007 05:12 PM
Book reports: "Blink" & "Tipping Point" Nords Other topics 2 12-04-2005 05:15 PM
Tipping TromboneAl Other topics 30 11-21-2005 07:15 AM
The tipping point: When to get out Traveler Other topics 29 05-05-2004 06:22 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:55 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.