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Old 12-06-2017, 11:05 AM   #1
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Tipping

A recent article provides reasons for ending the practice tipping in restaurants, which the author persuasively argues is dysfunctional ("Itís no longer clear that tipping is producing the benefits that motivate the system").

The article links to a blog entry, Observations from a Tipless Restaurant, part-5: sex, power, tips, which claims
Quote:
The meme of sleeping with our waitress is important to Americans. Like all our treasured myths, itís embedded in our popular culture.... we Americans ó at the very least heterosexual American men ó spend a fair amount of time thinking about having sex with waitresses.
Wow.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:10 AM   #2
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I know of two restaurants that went to a no-tipping model. Both went back to tipping within a year.

It's another idea that's just not ready for prime time yet.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:12 AM   #3
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It seems pretty obvious there is some feeding of that myth when you go to restaurants like: Hooters, or the Tilted Kilt (which is a weird name as I always think of men wearing kilts).
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:23 AM   #4
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I never could understand the appeal of such 'restaurants' (if you want to pay to ogle women's bodies, why not just go to a strip bar?).

Another blog entry in the same series [Observations from a Tipless Restaurant, part 6: why tipping should - and may be - made illegal], points out that tipping encourages illegal discrimination. See further:
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:42 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
I know of two restaurants that went to a no-tipping model. Both went back to tipping within a year.

It's another idea that's just not ready for prime time yet.
It's always hard to be the first ones, in this case often folks look at menu price, see the lower priced menu and go in, then later pay the tip that they never calculated in the menu price evaluation.

The other restaurant with higher price gets less customers, and gives up.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:59 AM   #6
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I never could understand the appeal of such 'restaurants' (if you want to pay to ogle women's bodies, why not just go to a strip bar?).
Add Twin Peaks to this list....
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:15 PM   #7
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Another of our perennial discussions.

It’s easier than ever these days to find credible evidence to support any point of view. The OP link seemed to be based on what customers wanted which may/not be based in the actual economics.

Here’s another point of view based on restaurant owners and workers actual bad experience with no tipping - some are already walking it back.
*https://www.theatlantic.com/business...licies/482151/
Quote:
The movement to eliminate tipping in American restaurants may be showing its first signs of wear. On Monday, Gabe Stulman, a New York City restaurateur who joined the growing no-gratuities campaign in December, announced that he would be reinstating the gratuity system at Fedora, his clamorous West Village haunt. Fedora was Stulman’s first venue to test out a service-included model, which required higher menu prices.

Meanwhile, last week, far from the island of Manhattan, the casual-dining chain Joe’s Crab Shack also reduced its commitment to a gratuity-free model, cutting the number of outlets participating in the tip-free experiment from 18 to 4.

Nevertheless, the service-included model is not universally popular among workers. In other evidence of growing pains, some discontent was reported in March among servers at Roman’s, a popular property in the mini-empire of the Brooklyn restaurant owner Andrew Tarlow, who followed Meyer’s lead in December by announcing that he would seek to go gratuity-free by the end of 2016. And, in San Francisco, Thad Vogler reverted back to accepting gratuity in January after experiencing high staff turnover among the formerly-tipped when he eliminated gratuity the previous year. “We couldn't compete in the market,” he told CNN. “We were faced with the options of raising prices more or bailing out.”
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:39 PM   #8
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Even when paying with a CC I still tip the waiter/waitress in cash.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:10 PM   #9
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From a conversation with our friends daughter who has been working restaurants for the past 3 or 4 years now. The expectation is 20% with 25% being considered good, and that is on total including tax!

I find the service in most restaurants is sub-par at best. The wait staff is often out of site not paying attention to needs of the diners no matter how slow or busy the restaurant is at the time.

Biggest pet peeve is I often find myself with an empty drink . Then just before the meal comes out they ask if I'd like another. Then often it arrives just as I'm finishing up my meal.

For that service they want an extra $2.75 for my drink.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:38 PM   #10
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Funny how people will happily pay someone an extra $1 or $2 for carrying a drink 40 feet from the bar to their table in a warm room, but few of them will tip the poor sucker who has to stand outside filling their gas tank when it's -30.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:44 PM   #11
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Funny how people will happily pay someone an extra $1 or $2 for carrying a drink 40 feet from the bar to their table in a warm room, but few of them will tip the poor sucker who has to stand outside filling their gas tank when it's -30.
you don't fill up your own vehicle?
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by frayne View Post
Even when paying with a CC I still tip the waiter/waitress in cash.
Me, too. I don't know if I'm right or not, but I figger that it costs me only the credit-card-reward-amount more to pay in cash and the gov't doesn't know exactly how much the waitron got and they may make out better in the long run. The smart ones remember me, and I am quite sure that I get better service for both my cash tip and tips in general.

In my personal experience, I have found that I work harder if my pay depends on it. I have not worked as a service person. I was a programmer.

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Old 12-06-2017, 02:01 PM   #13
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I tip my massage therapist in cash. Waitstaff usually added on to credit card.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Luck_Club View Post
From a conversation with our friends daughter who has been working restaurants for the past 3 or 4 years now. The expectation is 20% with 25% being considered good, and that is on total including tax!

I find the service in most restaurants is sub-par at best. The wait staff is often out of site not paying attention to needs of the diners no matter how slow or busy the restaurant is at the time.

Biggest pet peeve is I often find myself with an empty drink . Then just before the meal comes out they ask if I'd like another. Then often it arrives just as I'm finishing up my meal.

For that service they want an extra $2.75 for my drink.
I would not be a repeat customer at such a place. We also don't eat out much. Whilst on vacations, when we eat all our meals at fancy places and thus are new to the area, we seem to learn the hard way often and have to agree with your statements!

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Old 12-06-2017, 02:04 PM   #15
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It's an interesting debate. I've noticed some places around here are trying new things.

The first one, which I hate, is adding a surcharge to every bill with a note on the menu that says something like "covers increasing minimum wage, costs of health insurance, etc". To me, those are the costs of doing business and you either roll them into your prices or close up shop. I avoid those places when I can and choose not to tip on the surcharge if I find myself in one.

The second thing I've seen, which I like better, is a note that menu prices are higher so that kitchen staff who aren't legally allowed to share in tips are paid a living wage; so please tip no more than 10% to the front-of-house staff.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:09 PM   #16
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you don't fill up your own vehicle?
I don’t know what’s allowed in Canada, but self serve gasoline is still not allowed in NJ and OR (except motorcycles). I know because I always fill up in PA when I’m going east to avoid full serve in NJ...
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:15 PM   #17
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I donít know whatís allowed in Canada, but self serve gasoline is still not allowed in OR and NJ. I know because I always fill up before the NJ border when Iím going east...
I don't agree with the politics of NJ and do not do business with anyone who pays NJ taxes if I can politely avoid doing so.

Much to my dismay, I notice that gas costs significantly less there despite the full-service mandate!

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Old 12-06-2017, 02:20 PM   #18
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At my parents' retirement community they have a restaurant on premises with no tipping. I've had dinner there often and the service is almost always fine. Dinner is always $22 per person for guests, no matter what you pick from the menu (with seconds included!). My folks pay for me and have the $22 added to their account. The waitpeople have to be verrrrry patient sometimes with the old folks. It's not a typical restaurant situation, I know, but just thought I'd add it to the mix. I see the same waiters and waitresses there year after year, so I guess they are paid well enough. Oh wait, darn, there is an annual donation fund that the residents are asked to donate to and my mom does give a generous donation every year. Maybe part of that goes to wait staff.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by John Galt III View Post
At my parents' retirement community they have a restaurant on premises with no tipping. I've had dinner there often and the service is almost always fine. Dinner is always $22 per person for guests, no matter what you pick from the menu (with seconds included!). My folks pay for me and have the $22 added to their account. The waitpeople have to be verrrrry patient sometimes with the old folks. It's not a typical restaurant situation, I know, but just thought I'd add it to the mix. I see the same waiters and waitresses there year after year, so I guess they are paid well enough. Oh wait, darn, there is an annual donation fund that the residents are asked to donate to and my mom does give a generous donation every year. Maybe part of that goes to wait staff.
As an old person, I find that I often see today's prices in the terms of my youth. I am shocked to see the effects of inflation but try to keep in mind that it's not 1972 anymore and that my monthly SS check is more than twice my annual income when I was in college. I tip for service but usually older people don't, based on my experience. I think the restaurant in question has probably had to adopt their model to stay in business considering its clientele.

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Old 12-06-2017, 02:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck_Club View Post
From a conversation with our friends daughter who has been working restaurants for the past 3 or 4 years now. The expectation is 20% with 25% being considered good, and that is on total including tax!

I find the service in most restaurants is sub-par at best. The wait staff is often out of site not paying attention to needs of the diners no matter how slow or busy the restaurant is at the time.

Biggest pet peeve is I often find myself with an empty drink . Then just before the meal comes out they ask if I'd like another. Then often it arrives just as I'm finishing up my meal.

For that service they want an extra $2.75 for my drink.
She would be disappointed by my standard 15% tip !
I will increase it or decrease it based on the staff performance, and I'll let little things like getting the bill wrong slide.

Maybe she works in bars or something where drunks can be influenced to pay more ?

I also have decided to have a standard 10% tip in Canada, as wait staff there earn $11/hr or more, vs here in US in many States where it's $3.xx/hr
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