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Old 03-23-2009, 04:18 PM   #21
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They either do the sperm donor thing, or in some cases ask a guy to get them pregnant with no strings attached.
Are these heterosexual women? That truly seems an odd approach for a still young heterosexual woman.

If I were asked to be the donor I would run like hell. I can imagine the judge's reaction when I said, "But You Honor, she said no strings attached!"

Ha
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:22 PM   #22
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Are these heterosexual women? That truly seems an odd approach for a still young heterosexual woman.

If I were asked to be the donor I would run like hell. I can imagine the judge's reaction when I said, "But You Honor, she said no strings attached!"

Ha
Maybe there was a "waiver of responsibility" he signed........

I guess the bottom line is that it is much more common than we think,and that to me is quite telling of our society.........
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:00 PM   #23
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There is no such thing as a "waiver of responsibility" (short of artificial insemination under a MD's care) if the child comes to the attention of the Court and needs support. That promise is about as good as the promise 'I'll love you in the morning'.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:17 PM   #24
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Are these heterosexual women? That truly seems an odd approach for a still young heterosexual woman.

If I were asked to be the donor I would run like hell. I can imagine the judge's reaction when I said, "But You Honor, she said no strings attached!"

Ha
Both. I think most went the sperm donor path. Even the one I know who chose the father may have done artificial insemination, if there are any legal protections that way. I don't know her well enough to ask at that level of detail.

Y'all are right, I don't think there is any kind of waiver that would hold up. It would have to be a decision based on trust, and I don't trust that well.

But no matter which way it's done, I think there are a growing number of women who want children but don't see any particualr reason to put up with a man in the process. Not sure it's a good idea, but I think it contributes to the numbers shown in the OP.

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Well, you DO have a father, whether you have a relationship with him does not change the fact that you DO have a father........
Actually, I think my mom had a sperm donor. To me a father implies involvement. But in the context of the OP, some were talking about the importance of a father in the family. I don't disagree that a good and caring father is a help in a family. But lack of one isn't the kiss of death.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:23 PM   #25
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Hey, I would definitely do the sperm donor route if I am still single and unmarried by 37. I should be well situated in my new career by then and be able to offer a great home to a child. Since most marriages end (60%) and the mothers end up taking care of the kids anyway!
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:21 PM   #26
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Sweden's rate of unwed mothers is higher (55% in 2003), but it's because many couples there choose to not get married.

It's true, in Europe, many people choose not to get married for ideological reasons. They just don't believe in the institution of marriage and let's face it, with religion losing ground in Europe, the moral push to get married just isn't there anymore. With more than half of all marriages ending in divorce, one could ask, why bother? Marriage just seem like an empty, meaningless promise with far more downside than upside potential. Quite frankly, I used to agree with that 100% (until I met Mrs. FIREdreamer that is).
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:21 AM   #27
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It's true, in Europe, many people choose not to get married for ideological reasons. They just don't believe in the institution of marriage and let's face it, with religion losing ground in Europe, the moral push to get married just isn't there anymore. With more than half of all marriages ending in divorce, one could ask, why bother? Marriage just seem like an empty, meaningless promise with far more downside than upside potential. Quite frankly, I used to agree with that 100% (until I met Mrs. FIREdreamer that is).
In Northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia, women marry the state. Who needs a pesky, demanding husband when the state will provide all the things the husband might supply in Asia or America? Liberating for many men too. IMO it remains to be seen how well this plays out over time.

Ha
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:19 AM   #28
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Actually, I think my mom had a sperm donor. To me a father implies involvement. But in the context of the OP, some were talking about the importance of a father in the family. I don't disagree that a good and caring father is a help in a family. But lack of one isn't the kiss of death.
But you did say they were MARRIED, right? Which means at some point they loved each other, and then it fell apart. that to me seems a little more normal than just getting an anonymous sperm donor and having a child that way........

Sorry your dad was not involved.... However, kids are resilient and obviously your mom gave you the right upbringing.......
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:21 AM   #29
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Are these heterosexual women? That truly seems an odd approach for a still young heterosexual woman.
When I wa single,I never dated anyone that "wanted" to get pregnant...........
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:32 AM   #30
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Sweden's rate of unwed mothers is higher (55% in 2003), but it's because many couples there choose to not get married. I wonder if that situation contributes to the statistic here.
I did not mean that they become single moms. They still live with the husband in a common law marriage type situation. Like (until recently) David Letterman.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:01 AM   #31
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I did not mean that they become single moms. They still live with the husband in a common law marriage type situation. Like (until recently) David Letterman.
An interesting look wold be "How often do they recycle these "husbands". Are these relationships more, equally, or less stable than married relationships of Euro-American women?

ha
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:17 AM   #32
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When I wa single,I never dated anyone that "wanted" to get pregnant...........
Just the ones who were willing to risk it?
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:20 AM   #33
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I did not mean that they become single moms. They still live with the husband in a common law marriage type situation. Like (until recently) David Letterman.
Reading my previous post again, I realized that I didn't make that point clear. But I am also talking about more and more Europeans having long term relationships (some with children) outside of the bounds of marriage. I personally know of very few women who have become single mothers by choice. But many of my European friends live in long term common law marriages where the woman would be included in the unwed mother statistics even though the father of her children is living with her and helping her raise the kids.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:33 AM   #34
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An interesting look wold be "How often do they recycle these "husbands". Are these relationships more, equally, or less stable than married relationships of Euro-American women?

ha
In my own experience, common-law marriages seem to be as stable as traditional marriages in Europe. Most of my European friends who live in common law marriages have been together for at least 10-15 years. They bought a house together, they have children, they have joint checking accounts and they look like any other married couple out there. For me, the only difference between a marriage and a common law marriage is basically a piece of paper. Divorce has become so streamlined and acceptable nowadays, that it's not a hurdle keeping people together for better or for worse anymore.

As for recycling "husbands", I know an astonishing number of people who are working on their 3rd or 4th marriage, so recycling is not exclusive to common law marriages...
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:51 AM   #35
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As for recycling "husbands", I know an astonishing number of people who are working on their 3rd or 4th marriage, so recycling is not exclusive to common law marriages...
Absolutely; I didn't mean to imply that this would be a difference, I just wondered if it would be.

I managed to stay married until my youngest was 16, but even that took a lot of trying.

In USA at least if you have assets or high earnings I think this alone can be something of a disincentive to divorce. Any Dad may have to pay child support, but this isn't much compared to losing half or more of your assets.

And of course if there are no children, exiting a relationship that does not involve marriage is usually far cheaper than leaving a legal marriage. (Including legal common-law marriages.) But I think common law marriage is not so common now anyway.)

There are all sorts of cerative palimony type strategies thought up by our "family law" fraternity, with enabling legislation backed by women's groups. Still, a little vigilance should keep you clear of this whereas it isn't likely to help much if you are married.

Ha
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:08 PM   #36
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As for recycling "husbands", I know an astonishing number of people who are working on their 3rd or 4th marriage, so recycling is not exclusive to common law marriages...
I'm working on my last marriage....
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:03 PM   #37
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I'm working on my last marriage....
My work here is through...
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:01 PM   #38
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I'm working on my last marriage....
So....living in sin is "plan B"
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #39
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Just the ones who were willing to risk it?
Precautions were taken.........
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:18 PM   #40
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So....living in sin is "plan B"
Well I guess it just depends. Define sin.
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