Total Cost of Ownership: Elect vs. Gas Car

[TromboneAl]

Here's my quick and dirty estimate of buying and using a used Nissan Leaf vs a use high-mileage gas car. Am I in the right ballpark? I expected the fuel cost to be much lower for the electric car, but I guess our rates are high.

 

[samclem]

Here's my quick and dirty estimate of buying and using a used Nissan Leaf vs a use high-mileage gas car. Am I in the right ballpark?

Seems close to what I'd have estimated. The depreciation (expressed in the resale value of the cars) is such a big and unknown factor (esp in the case of the Leaf) that it pretty much swamps everything else when deciding which car is ultimately pricier.

One "nit"--I'd probably budget a slightly higher amount in maintenance for the electric Nissan than for a similar IC car. There are just fewer places to get 'em worked on and fewer places that sell the specialized components. If something big goes wrong (e.g. electronic control gizmotron), it could be a doozy.

 

[Sunset]

I would expect the maintenance on the used gas car to be higher, you are going to have 12 oil changes at $30 (?) each . so that's an additional $360 for the 5 years.

Plus the leaf is going to be a lot newer, than the old beater, so I'd expect other things to go on the beater. Like how about replacing the timing chain, that would be an extra $400-$800 alone.

 

[jabbahop]

Edmunds has maintenance cost for leaf and other cars you could use.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Winemaker]

I have received 30 gallons of free fuel monthly for the past 6 years due to grocery store perks.Since ER, sometimes that is my only fuel "purchase" for the month.

 

[swakyaby]

The mileage reimbursement for gas cars used for business purposes is currently set at 0.54/mile driven. This takes into account the average cost of yearly maintenance. I own an electric car that I bought new in Sept 2014. So far, I have spent zero on maintenance. My electricity is 13 cents per kilowatt (2nd tier electricity). The highest price for electricity in my area is 18 cents per kilowatt (3rd tier), a price I have yet to reach.

 

[ERD50]

35 mpg? You could get a used Prius in that price range that gets 40~45 mpg on the highway (48 is EPA highway rating).

Why the difference in resale price in your SS?

In another thread you mentioned how a 2nd car can be needed for unexpected reasons. Is the range of used Leaf going to be a 'gotcha' at just the wrong time? Imagine you just got home, the car needs to charge for hours and hours, and you get that call?

With the distance round trip to town for you, I think a Leaf is just too borderline. Go Tesla if you insist on EV, or a Chevy Volt (has ICE range extender).

Does your utility offer TOD pricing? Maybe you could charge overnight for far less?

-ERD50

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

You may already be aware of the Leaf battery issues with the class action lawsuit, the settlement, and the resultant battery replacement plan. The older ones are very cheap for a reason...

There is a plethora of info out there, the Leaf owners forum is a great resource for getting down to the nitty gritty.

Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[ponyboy]

You forgot to add one calculation for the electric car...

"Conflict Minerals" used to make electric batteries for cars = priceless

I love the idea of electric cars and believe it is the future...just wish there was a better way of obtaining the resources used to produce the batteries.

 

[Totoro]

Overall you seem to allright.

Maintenance should be lower for the EV.

Your electricity rates are retail I'd guess, is there any way you can get wholesale somewhere? A neighbor with a bunch of solar panels for example.

Depreciation is a crapshoot, but it seems you should be able to get a bit better numbers than you are using, especially on the gas car.

Last but not least: In Europe right now the Renault Zoe new is selling for 40% off the list price (!), which basically is the residual value after three years.

So shop around a bit, there are steals available right now in the short-range EVs.

 

[MasterBlaster]

If you are unfortunate enough to have to buy a replacement battery for the Leaf, the cost of ownership will skyrocket. As I understand it the replacement battery costs a (net) $5500.

 

[Totoro]

That's part of the depreciation.

 

[MasterBlaster]

That's part of the depreciation.

Well that may be true, but it isn't allocated in the presented spreadsheet cost of ownership.

If you buy a 3 or 4 year old car and keep it for 5 years the battery replacement issue is (at least somewhat) likely.

If the battery replacement issue happens you can weigh the cost of battery replacement against the value of the car and make a decision if you want to scrap the car or not.

 

[Slow But Steady]

Here in Texas, where we can choose an electric provider, I am paying $0.085 per KWH. Not that that's relevant.

 

[nash031]

Makes a stronger case for a high-quality hybrid, IMO. Best of both worlds from a fuel stand point, especially where electricity is expensive as it is in CA; burns much less gas (50+ combined on a Prius), no need to plug it in and raise your electric bill, no worries about stopping to charge on long roadies, and from what I understand anecdotally no real need to replace a battery at mid-life.

 

[gromit]

Some states are now adding additional taxes on electric vehicles because they pay no gasoline taxes. In Georgia, they add a $200 annual fee, that is in addition to the normal ad valorum tax. Maybe your state hasn't gone this route, but it might in the future.

Note: I think Georgia's fee is for all electric cars only, not hybrids.

 

[GravitySucks]

I find Edmunds TCO helpful....
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2016/st-401610732/cost-to-own/

A good jumping off point to flesh out the spreadsheet.

 

[TromboneAl]

Why the difference in resale price in your SS?

-ERD50

I'm figuring that in a few years, with electrics with a range of 200+ miles, no one will want to buy a used Leaf.

>In another thread you mentioned how a 2nd car can be needed for unexpected reasons. Is the range of used Leaf going to be a 'gotcha' at just the wrong time? Imagine you just got home, the car needs to charge for hours and hours, and you get that call?

No. Here's why: It's the gasoline Tacoma that will sit at home. All local driving will be done with the Leaf. So, if Lena calls, she will have been driving the Leaf, and I'd rescue her in the Tacoma.

>Does your utility offer TOD pricing? Maybe you could charge overnight for far less?

That's figured in:

 

[ERD50]

>Why the difference in resale price in your SS?

I'm figuring that in a few years, with electrics with a range of 200+ miles, no one will want to buy a used Leaf....

OK, I misread your SS. So as someone else points out, that assumption wipes out other factors, so hard to tell.

>In another thread you mentioned how a 2nd car can be needed for unexpected reasons. Is the range of used Leaf going to be a 'gotcha' at just the wrong time? Imagine you just got home, the car needs to charge for hours and hours, and you get that call?

No. Here's why: It's the gasoline Tacoma that will sit at home. All local driving will be done with the Leaf. So, if Lena calls, she will have been driving the Leaf, and I'd rescue her in the Tacoma.

Seems like a shaky assumption to me. You were talking about loosening the purse strings a while back - just go for a long range EV, like a Tesla!

>Does your utility offer TOD pricing? Maybe you could charge overnight for far less?

That's figured in:

Wow. So $0.185 kWh is your 'cheap night time rate'!

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

You were talking about loosening the purse strings a while back - just go for a long range EV, like a Tesla!

I don't think I could loosen them enough to pull $80,000 out of the purse.

>So as someone else points out, that assumption wipes out other factors, so hard to tell.

Right. OTOH, if the price of oil ever skyrockets ...

 

[Texas Proud]

I do not see the cost of a charging station in the calcs...


Unless you just plan to plug it into an existing socket that will take a long time to charge...

 

[TromboneAl]

I do not see the cost of a charging station in the calcs...


Unless you just plan to plug it into an existing socket that will take a long time to charge...

Looks like that will be about $400 + $400 for 220 socket installation.

Car arrives today or tomorrow.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Totoro]

My brother had it done for 200 euros.

Tesla dealership offered it for 4k (!).

 

[TromboneAl]

Took it to town, did some errands, and came back. 61 miles total and had 20 miles left.

I drove at 55 MPH in eco mode.

So, it will work, but I had hoped my wicked hypermiling skills would have gotten me more range.

The car's display tells me that my efficiency is 4 miles/kwH, so that improves the fuel cost comparison. $2775 elec vs 4714 gas.

There's a special electrical rate of EV Car owners that would let me charge at night for $.11 per KWH, but overall, that might not be advantageous.

 

[ERD50]

... The car's display tells me that my efficiency is 4 miles/kwH, so that improves the fuel cost comparison. $2775 elec vs 4714 gas. ...

That's from battery to motor, it does not account for charge losses. If you have 15% losses, you need ~ 1.18 kWh in to get 1 kWh out, so ~ 3.4 miles/kWh.

-ERD50