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Old 02-22-2008, 01:43 PM   #21
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A great day for a walk with Fluffy: NOT!

A 70-year-old Iranian man was arrested and sentenced to four months in jail and 30 lashes for walking his dog, Adnkronos.com reported Tuesday. Police caught the man on the street with his dog in Shahr Rey, a suburb of Tehran.
Owners of domestic animals are forbidden from taking them on the streets of the city because Islam considers dogs to be impure. An Islamic judge later charged the man for "disturbing the public order,” Adnkronos.com reported.
Despite repeated warnings by the police, dog owners continue to defy authorities by taking their dogs outside their homes. Typical punishment for people caught with dogs outside is a fine or the "detention" of their animals in a pound, Adnkronos.com reported.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad recently provoked debate in Iran about dog ownership when he took possession of four guard dogs, bought in Germany for approximately $161,040 each.
Click here to read more on this story from Adnkronos.com.
I hate to be judgmental, but... (Just for walking his DOG?)
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:47 PM   #22
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I hate to be judgmental, but... (Just for walking his DOG?)
As the proud owner of a dog, I can tell you they are definately unclean
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:51 PM   #23
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Iran[FONT=Arial]: I think if I were a western woman, I’d keep a close eye on Muslim immigration into my country. This doesn’t sound like anything a woman would want.
The Iranians I know who are immigrating into this country, especially the women, are doing so to get away from this sort of behavior. The ones who support stoning stay in Iran since it is still legal there.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:51 PM   #24
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As the proud owner of a dog, I can tell you they are definately unclean
Good thing he wasn't walking a pig.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:04 PM   #25
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A great day for a walk with Fluffy: NOT!

A 70-year-old Iranian man was arrested and sentenced to four months in jail and 30 lashes for walking his dog, Adnkronos.com reported Tuesday. Police caught the man on the street with his dog in Shahr Rey, a suburb of Tehran.

It isn't just Arab/Muslim countries, in Beijing and believe other major Chinese cities it is illegal to walk dogs during the day before 8 AM is the rule. The Chinese being good capitalist don't lash you just fine you.

It is also because dogs are unclean.. Most of the anti woman laws in Muslim countries are to prevent men from having unclean thoughts.

I wonder if their is Koran equivalent to Cleanliness is next to Godliness?


Cats rules dog drool..
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:24 PM   #26
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It is also because dogs are unclean..
Cats rules dog drool..
Maybe George Carlin would be a big hit at a Tehran stand-up:
"If I could reach where a dog can lick, I'd never leave the house!"
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:32 PM   #27
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Just remember, these are the people that Obama and others of his ilk want us to negotiate with.
As I recall, he said only that he would meet with their leaders without preconditions, not that he would compromise our principles.

With all due respect, refusing to speak to people with whom we disagree is just stupid. The result of our conversation may well be that we tell them to f*&% off and die. But it might, just might, end with us finding a way to bridge our differences. Who knows, they might even be won over entirely to our side. But one thing is certain, we will never find out if we refuse to meet.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:50 PM   #28
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As I recall, he said only that he would meet with their leaders without preconditions, not that he would compromise our principles.

With all due respect, refusing to speak to people with whom we disagree is just stupid. The result of our conversation may well be that we tell them to f*&% off and die. But it might, just might, end with us finding a way to bridge our differences. Who knows, they might even be won over entirely to our side. But one thing is certain, we will never find out if we refuse to meet.
Even though he is very liberal... I think he has a good message... and would prefer him over Clinton... so since the repub is set... I just might go vote for him in the primary... then the choice is him or McCain... the way I feel now, either is OK with me...

The problem is that he said HE would talk with the various, not that he would have low level diplomats do some talking and see if there was something that we could agree on....
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:54 PM   #29
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I would expect that any head of government level meetings would be preceded by one or more lower level meetings. At least, that's how I would do it.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:55 PM   #30
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"I think if I were a western woman, I’d keep a close eye on Muslim immigration into my country. This doesn’t sound like anything a woman would want."

Are you starting with your prejudice nonsense again? Do you think all Muslims stone women to death? Have you heard of countless women being killed by their husbands in the West? I am neither Muslim nor a member of a minority class but I have to point out that this comment in not necessary.

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Old 02-22-2008, 02:59 PM   #31
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The problem is that he said HE would talk with the various, not that he would have low level diplomats do some talking and see if there was something that we could agree on....
I'm having trouble finding sources now (read it several years ago) but I recall a case being laid out that the US would be able to go a long way in diffusing N. Korea by meeting directly with their leadership rather than calling them out as an axis of evil... something about how much of Kim Jong-il's behaviors were ego-based and an attempt at recognition and legitimacy. Not sure how realistic the premise is, but it might be worth considering our interactions with the world... it's generally too complex to just be good v evil.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:15 PM   #32
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Some Europeans (Dutch, Danes, maybe Swedes, French) are beginning to think that it is us vs them (western civilization vs the Moslem world), that multi-culturalism doesn't work.
I don't think that Europeans necessarily think that "multi-culturalism" doesn't work. IMHO Europeans tend to think (and I agree), that some unequivocally anti-western cultures use Europe's lax immigration laws and freedoms to "colonize" their continent by attacking it from within. In certain parts of America, people complain about the same phenomenon with Mexican immigrants. They arrive in great number and suddenly they demand that we all speak spanish. The big difference is that Mexicans do not pledge to destroy America. You know it's not the Europeans who decided it had to be the West vs. the Moslem World. THEY are the one who declared war on us and drew the line in the sand.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:20 PM   #33
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As I recall, he said only that he would meet with their leaders without preconditions, not that he would compromise our principles.

With all due respect, refusing to speak to people with whom we disagree is just stupid. The result of our conversation may well be that we tell them to f*&% off and die. But it might, just might, end with us finding a way to bridge our differences. Who knows, they might even be won over entirely to our side. But one thing is certain, we will never find out if we refuse to meet.
There are all kinds of ways of communicating with countries that we disagree with other than having the President of the United States sit down and talk directly with the other countries head of state.

3rd party communications, via folks like the Swiss or the Swedes has been done by hostile nations for hundreds of years. Unofficial talks between lower level diplomats also work.

There are a couple hundred countries in the world, and the President is the leader of the most powerful one. He simply doesn't have to time to talk to all of them. It is a big boost for the prestige of a small country leader to have a Presidential visit/discussion. Witness the excitement that President Bush's Africa trip caused (although you'd never know it was big deal on the basis of media coverage here) . We should not reward countries that call Jews a virus and urge its destruction, or conduct test of nuclear weapons and ICBM, with such a perk.

Senator Obama's and I guess your naievity on these matters is on scary display, when you suggest there is no harm in talking.

Think about this, in order for you and Obama to be right that "talking with no preconditions" is a good idea, than you must think that billions of man hours expended over the last many centuries by diplomats through out the world, setting up exactly the precondition between head of state meetings, must have all been a huge waste.

I think Obama is displaying a different type of arrogance
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:29 PM   #34
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As I recall, he said only that he would meet with their leaders without preconditions, not that he would compromise our principles.

With all due respect, refusing to speak to people with whom we disagree is just stupid. The result of our conversation may well be that we tell them to f*&% off and die. But it might, just might, end with us finding a way to bridge our differences. Who knows, they might even be won over entirely to our side. But one thing is certain, we will never find out if we refuse to meet.
Taking advantage of my Netflix subscription, I recently saw "Fog of War", an hour and a half interview with Robert McNamara. One particularly impressive portion dealt with his return visit to Vietnam in 1995 to meet with the former North Vietnamese Foreign Minister, who to that day was sure the USA wanted to colonize Vietnam like the French and stated that was what drove them to resist so vigorously. McNamara claims the US was not against reunification.

Quote:
"Mr. McNamara, You must never have read a history book. If you'd had, you'd know we weren't pawns of the Chinese or the Russians. McNamara, didn't you know that? Don't you understand that we have been fighting the Chinese for 1000 years? We were fighting for our independence. And we would fight to the last man. And we were determined to do so. And no amount of bombing, no amount of U.S. pressure would ever have stopped us." - Thach, former Foreign Minister of Vietnam, 1995, as recalled by McNamara.
So, it seems a lot of people died for a lack of an honest dialog.

The Fog of War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:31 PM   #35
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There are all kinds of ways of communicating with countries that we disagree with other than having the President of the United States sit down and talk directly with the other countries head of state.

3rd party communications, via folks like the Swiss or the Swedes has been done by hostile nations for hundreds of years. Unofficial talks between lower level diplomats also work.

There are a couple hundred countries in the world, and the President is the leader of the most powerful one. He simply doesn't have to time to talk to all of them. It is a big boost for the prestige of a small country leader to have a Presidential visit/discussion. Witness the excitement that President Bush's Africa trip caused (although you'd never know it was big deal on the basis of media coverage here) . We should not reward countries that call Jews a virus and urge its destruction, or conduct test of nuclear weapons and ICBM, with such a perk.

Senator Obama's and I guess your naievity on these matters is on scary display, when you suggest there is no harm in talking.

Think about this, in order for you and Obama to be right that "talking with no preconditions" is a good idea, than you must think that billions of man hours expended over the last many centuries by diplomats through out the world, setting up exactly the precondition between head of state meetings, must have all been a huge waste.

I think Obama is displaying a different type of arrogance
I seem to recall a rather fruitful meeting between a US president and the head of a nation that actually had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed directly at us. Maybe you recall, it was in Iceland in 1986 between Reagan and Gorbachev. That Reagan, such a rookie mistake.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:44 PM   #36
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I seem to recall a rather fruitful meeting between a US president and the head of a nation that actually had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed directly at us. Maybe you recall, it was in Iceland in 1986 between Reagan and Gorbachev. That Reagan, such a rookie mistake.
You are forgetting the foolish meeting Mr. Nixon had with Mao in 1972.

1972 Nixon visit to China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:44 PM   #37
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Maybe George Carlin would be a big hit at a Tehran stand-up:
"If I could reach where a dog can lick, I'd never leave the house!"
I cannot even concieve of the number of lashes ol George would pick up for that one.
Hell, come to think of it, you may be at risk for even posting it
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:52 PM   #38
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I cannot even concieve of the number of lashes ol George would pick up for that one.
Hell, come to think of it, you may be at risk for even posting it

Might have to go in hiding like old Salman
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:09 PM   #39
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I seem to recall a rather fruitful meeting between a US president and the head of a nation that actually had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed directly at us. Maybe you recall, it was in Iceland in 1986 between Reagan and Gorbachev. That Reagan, such a rookie mistake.

To be fair, though, there's a difference between making time to meet with a Russia or China versus, say, Luxemburg... I think that was the gist of the point... not every country warrants the president's time.

Given the current landscape, asymmetric force, and the potential impact on our way of life, I'm not sure where the cut off would be for "leave it to the diplomats" versus "give 'em some face time and make them feel important".
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:27 PM   #40
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"I think if I were a western woman, I’d keep a close eye on Muslim immigration into my country. This doesn’t sound like anything a woman would want."

Are you starting with your prejudice nonsense again? Do you think all Muslims stone women to death? Have you heard of countless women being killed by their husbands in the West? I am neither Muslim nor a member of a minority class but I have to point out that this comment in not necessary.
It isn't nonsense to worry about religious fundamentalism, especially when it is government supported. Muslim countries do have a record of disenfranchising women and treating women as second class citizens, or even worse. Plus, I am very uncomfortable with societies that do not have a strong separation between church and state. I no more want Christianity as a state religion than I want Islam. I do not think that it is prejudicial to say that I do not have a lot of respect for cultures that has little respect for me.

I remember a year or so ago a Muslim cleric in the west said that women in public were asking to be raped. His analogy was something to the effect that if you leave your meat out, someone will steal it.

The religious right in the US can scare me and the religious right in other countries scare me too.
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