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Old 02-22-2008, 06:47 PM   #41
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Fundamentalists, of whatever creed, are dangerous (and usually misogynistic)
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:01 PM   #42
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I seem to recall a rather fruitful meeting between a US president and the head of a nation that actually had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed directly at us. Maybe you recall, it was in Iceland in 1986 between Reagan and Gorbachev. That Reagan, such a rookie mistake.

Thank you for making my point for me. First, the Soviet Union unlike North Korea or Iran was/is a super power they had thousands of nuclear weapons. Secondly there was hours of pre negotiating on the Reykavick summit.

If wanna be President Obama want to meet with President AMadJihadist to discuss Iran dropping their nuclear weapon program, stopping the supply of IED material for Iraq, and toning down the rhetoric on Israel, that is fine. Same thing is true for North Korea. But that isn't the type of meeting those countries want.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:22 PM   #43
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I think if you read all my posts, you would see that I did, in fact, state an expectation that there would be advance meetings between lower level officials. And, yes, I would expect the subjects you have mentioned to be part of any meeting. Why else would we want to talk to them?

Just as I would not impose preconditions, I would not accept them.

P.S. - I believe the President of Iran is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, not "Amadjihadist", but I'm willing to bet you already knew that. Keep listening to Rush; I'm sure he'll come up with another clever one like that.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:27 PM   #44
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A 70-year-old Iranian man was arrested and sentenced to four months in jail and 30 lashes for walking his dog, Adnkronos.com reported Tuesday. Police caught the man on the street with his dog in Shahr Rey, a suburb of Tehran.
It seems like the punishment of four months in jail and 30 lashes would be appropriate if the man had failed to clean up after his dog "did his duty." People who allow their dogs to poop all about without cleaning up definitely deserve jail and a good whipping.

But, for just walking the dog, the punishment seems extreme IMHO.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:35 PM   #45
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If wanna be President Obama want to meet with President AMadJihadist to discuss .........
With extreme liberals, there seems to be a special, significant difference between "meeting with someone to discuss....." and "sitting down at the table with someone to discuss....."

It's a little hard to put your finger exactly on the difference, but I think what Obama is talking about, and what differentiated him from Hillary in last night's debate question concerning meetings, is that he wants to "sit down at the table to discuss." He doesn't just want to "meet with and discuss."
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:51 PM   #46
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Interesting how a story of a girl being stoned by her father turns into a fractious debate between the left and right.

It seems a solution would be to open up our borders to those yearning to be free, don't you think?
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:52 PM   #47
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Interesting how a story of a girl being stoned by her father turns into a fractious debate between the left and right.

It seems a solution would be to open up our borders to those yearning to be free, don't you think?
I know. I think Ive about had it with the political threads
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:25 PM   #48
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Are you starting with your prejudice nonsense again? Do you think all Muslims stone women to death? Have you heard of countless women being killed by their husbands in the West? I am neither Muslim nor a member of a minority class but I have to point out that this comment in not necessary.
A mirror might help you see prejudice. Countless women in the west are not killed by their husbands. In fact, the number of women killed by their husbands is actually quite small, and is not all that different than the number of men killed by their wives. Domestic violence is an equal opportunity crime regardless of how it's portrayed in the media. Husband kills wife. Man is bad. Wife kills husband. Man is bad, he deserved it. Despite what you want to believe, not all men are evil monsters, just like not all Muslims stone women to death. Like I said, a mirror might help you see prejudice.

I don't buy the story ("Iran: Father stones 14-year-old daughter to death"). While I can't say it didn't happen, it has a typical hysterical "women are victims of everything" bent. Even if it's true, my guess is that there's more to it.

In November, it was widely reported that an unmarried Saudi woman who was raped was given 90 lashes for being alone with an unrelated man (she was raped by a group of 7 men, not by the man she was with). Needless to say, the media went on a rampage. Women's groups were outraged. "This is an example of how the Muslim world treats females," they protested. However, what these people conveniently failed to mention is that the man she was with was also raped and was also given a sentence of 90 lashes. But he doesn't count. He's only a man. If you want to discuss the merits of Saudi law, fine. But in this case, in essence, people were upset because the woman was given the same sentence as the man. So much for equality.

True. Saudi women cannot vote. But neither can Saudi men. I've never been to Saudi Arabia so I don't have first hand knowledge, but there was an interesting article in the National Post. The author reports that it is false that women cannot leave the house without a male relative. They can go out all they want. They simply are not allowed to travel cross country, a law designed to protect them from evil men. And while Saudi women cannot drive, they have many rights that are not afforded to Saudi men. For example, they have the right to be supported by their nearest male relative. In a lineup for service, women are served before men. Most attractions have special days on which men cannot attend unless accompanied by a woman, whereas women are free to go at any time. Most parks are designated "for women and children only"; no dogs or men allowed. On buses, men must sit in the back. Women can sit where they like. Men must surrender their seats to women.

If you want to talk about prejudice and discrimination, you only need to look at the United States. For example, 55,000 American men were killed in the Vietnam war. About half of these men, or I should say boys, were *forced* to fight and die via the draft. The number of women killed was 8. The Vietnam War memorial lists all deaths, but there is an additional memorial just for women. Women are more important.

And what do Obama, Clinton, and McCain think about men's issues (health care, longevity, education, draconian divorce laws, child custody, circumcision of male infants, an unequal justice system, suicide, refusal of most tax-funded domestic violence shelters to provide services for men and their children, reproductive freedom, male-only draft, violence against men, prison rape, etc)? Do they even have opinions?

I knew I'd regret posting this. Back to lurking mode.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:51 AM   #49
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men's issues (health care, longevity, education, draconian divorce laws, child custody, circumcision of male infants, an unequal justice system, suicide, refusal of most tax-funded domestic violence shelters to provide services for men and their children, reproductive freedom, male-only draft, violence against men, prison rape, etc)
I was going to show this list to DW for her comments........ But, wisely, I reconsidered. Why get my butt kicked on an otherwise pleasant Saturday morning?

Thanks for posting this. Takes guts to mention an unpopular minority opinion.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:59 AM   #50
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For those of you interested in 'the other side', you might be interested in this blog:

Baghdad Burning

Start at the beginning and work through. Here's a link to the first part of the blog, from August 17th, 2003: Baghdad Burning

It's written by a young Iraqi woman.
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:35 PM   #51
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Fundamentalists, of whatever creed, are dangerous (and usually misogynistic)
true even with what would have been otherwise seemingly to me innocuous new age thinking. i've mentioned before that i had a friend who was so convinced that he determined everything that happened to him in life that when he found out he had a disease he decided that his "higher self" must have determined that it was time to die and so he did.

as well, i recently lost a very old friend, also to fundemental new ageism. among other outlandish assertions, she told me that my mother's alzheimer's was her own damned fault; that she wouldn't have gotten it if she didn't want it. of course she never noticed that when trouble came her way i simply offered support instead of attack.

oddly, intelligence level was not the deciding factor in who went over that edge. my dear dead friend had an i.q. of over 135 and though i never considered my now dead-to-me friend very bright, at least she used to be a caring and thoughtful person. but when i confronted her recently on another matter she said to me (i'm paraphrasing): "i have a message to deliver; i don't have to be nice." ick.

during another one of her brilliant other-worldly observations, she said to me that i'm gay because when i died last time (rather presumptuous, don't ya think?) i didn't stay dead long enough or some such crap to make her feel superior for being hetero. well, at least she didn't stone me.
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:33 PM   #52
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Taking advantage of my Netflix subscription, I recently saw "Fog of War", an hour and a half interview with Robert McNamara. One particularly impressive portion dealt with his return visit to Vietnam in 1995 to meet with the former North Vietnamese Foreign Minister, who to that day was sure the USA wanted to colonize Vietnam like the French and stated that was what drove them to resist so vigorously. McNamara claims the US was not against reunification.
So, it seems a lot of people died for a lack of an honest dialog.
Or it could be that they died because of McNamara's stupid management interference.

It galls me that a Ford exec gets religion just before he's "recalled" to meet his maker. Sorta like Jane Fonda apologizing for anybody offended by her doing things that she's not going to apologize for.

But I wasn't personally there-- perhaps a Vietnam vet or two has a better perspective.

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For those of you interested in 'the other side', you might be interested in this blog:
It's written by a young Iraqi woman.
Or, as far as we know, by a 14-year-old from Missoula...
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:52 PM   #53
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Or it could be that they died because of McNamara's stupid management interference.

It galls me that a Ford exec gets religion just before he's "recalled" to meet his maker. Sorta like Jane Fonda apologizing for anybody offended by her doing things that she's not going to apologize for.

But I wasn't personally there-- perhaps a Vietnam vet or two has a better perspective...............
McNamara was self serving in this movie, but I found the movie to be a candid inside account of that era. His telling of how close the US and USSR came to exchanging nuclear missiles over the Cuba crisis is chilling.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:12 PM   #54
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BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's 'diagnosed transsexuals'

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Homosexual relationships are banned in Iran, but the country allows sex change operations and hundreds of men have elected for surgery to change their lives...Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world

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The government even provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance and a sex change is recognised on your birth certificate.
"Islam has a cure for people suffering from this problem. If they want to change their gender, the path is open," says Hojatol Islam Muhammad Mehdi Kariminia, the religious cleric responsible for gender reassignment.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:42 PM   #55
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In November, it was widely reported that an unmarried Saudi woman who was raped was given 90 lashes for being alone with an unrelated man (she was raped by a group of 7 men, not by the man she was with). Needless to say, the media went on a rampage. Women's groups were outraged. "This is an example of how the Muslim world treats females," they protested. However, what these people conveniently failed to mention is that the man she was with was also raped and was also given a sentence of 90 lashes. But he doesn't count. He's only a man. If you want to discuss the merits of Saudi law, fine. But in this case, in essence, people were upset because the woman was given the same sentence as the man. So much for equality.
Um, no, we weren't upset that she got the same sentence as the man, we were upset that she was sentenced for BEING RAPED!

Read Princess by Jean Sasson for a good idea of how life is for these women. And wasn't it just last week that woman was arrested for sitting in a freakin' Starbucks? I'm with Martha and Want2, watch out for the influx of Muslims and their interest in pushing Sharia law on western countries.

Telegraph
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:10 PM   #56
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Um, no, we weren't upset that she got the same sentence as the man, we were upset that she was sentenced for BEING RAPED!

Read Princess by Jean Sasson for a good idea of how life is for these women. And wasn't it just last week that woman was arrested for sitting in a freakin' Starbucks? I'm with Martha and Want2, watch out for the influx of Muslims and their interest in pushing Sharia law on western countries.

Telegraph
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
I agree with you Sarah in SC. We need to protect ourselves from those christians too. Some of them want to change the laws of nature!
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:08 PM   #57
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I agree with you Sarah in SC. We need to protect ourselves from those christians too. Some of them want to change the laws of nature!
By the time you get everyone who isn't exactly like you on your "need protection from list" there won't be many left!
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