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Old 02-21-2008, 12:48 PM   #1
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Tough Way to Live

Iran: Father 'stones 14-year-old daughter to death'

Tehran, 18 Feb. (AKI) - A man known as Sharif has reportedly stoned his fourteen-year-old daughter to death in southeastern Iran because for allegedly having a relationship with a man.

Sharif's wife reported him to police after he and a friend killed the girl in Zahedan, capital of Baluchistan province.

Sharif showed no sign of remorse, telling police who interrogated him: "I suspected that my daughter had a relationship with a man and I had to stone her to death as she had besmirched my honour."

"I had no other choice," he said, telling police how he had carried out the stoning.

Two sisters, Azar and Zohreh Kabiri, 27 and 28 years-old respectively were earlier this month sentenced to death by stoning for allegedly committing adultery.

The women each have one child. They are from the suburb of Shahriar, near Karaj, north of the capital, Tehran.

The Kabiri sisters have already received 99 lashes each.



I think if I were a western woman, I’d keep a close eye on Muslim immigration into my country. This doesn’t sound like anything a woman would want.

Also interesting from this father's POV. Surely he can't have wanted his daughter dead; there goes a piece of his line among other negative things. But he felt he had no choice. This must be a rotten system for a man too.

Ha

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Old 02-21-2008, 12:57 PM   #2
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I think if I were a western woman, I’d keep a close eye on Muslim immigration into my country. This doesn’t sound like anything a woman would want.
This is one of several reasons why I am NOT happy with the lack of enforcement of immigration laws. How can we control immigration, if we don't even know who is immigrating? I am all for a reasonable or even high influx of legal immigrants who want to be Americans and to assimilate into American culture and mores. All of us are descended from immigrants. But I find stories such as the one you quoted, to be pretty horrifying and I would not want my daughter or future generations of American girls to be treated in such a manner.

In 1980 I told my ex that I would not accompany him if he chose to take an extravagantly high paying job in Saudi Arabia. I did not want to live someplace where I could not drive, work, or wear a bikini if I wanted to. But those concerns seem very shallow compared with the concerns raised by this article.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:38 PM   #3
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:44 PM   #4
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Just remember, these are the people that Obama and others of his ilk want us to negotiate with.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:50 PM   #5
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During Desert Shield/Storm, I spent six months in Oman, and Saudi Arabia. Women in those counties are treated essentially like cattle--posessions. Their country, their culture, if they don't like it, they should fix it. We have every right to have our own culture and insist newcomers adapt to us, not vice versa. No other country on earth is plagued with "political correctness" like we are.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:53 PM   #6
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Just remember, these are the people that Obama and others of his ilk want us to negotiate with.
I don't recall Bush calling for an invasion of Saudi Arabia or Turkey to right wrongs either though.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:57 PM   #7
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Sad story. If you want to do something about, support an org like Amnesty International.

Complaining about immigration and Obama seems a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction to me. Or is Obama trying to pass a pro-flogging-and-stoning bill in the senate or something?
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:01 PM   #8
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Sad story. If you want to do something about, support an org like Amnesty International.

Complaining about immigration and Obama seems a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction to me. Or is Obama trying to pass a pro-flogging-and-stoning bill in the senate or something?
I heard he was a bleeding-face liberal.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:02 PM   #9
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Ouch.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:15 PM   #10
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I should know better than to post on a thread that has turned political but I have to say it. It breaks my heart to see people in danger from their own cultures. And here in the city I see it all the time as surely as I see people trying to rest in cardboard boxes to keep dry.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:19 PM   #11
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I should know better than to post on a thread that has turned political but I have to say it.
Sometimes it is hard to find a worthwhile topic that doesn't have political aspects.

Ha
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:22 PM   #12
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Sometimes it is hard to find a worthwhile topic that doesn't have political aspects.

Ha
True.
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Old 02-21-2008, 04:13 PM   #13
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Also interesting from this father's POV. Surely he can't have wanted his daughter dead; there goes a piece of his line among other negative things. But he felt he had no choice. This must be a rotten system for a man too.

This is your 'western' thinking.... they do not care about their daughters or wives... they are 'property' to control and trade... if she had a relationship with a man, her value has dropped.. and maybe if she had sex, nobody else would want her ever... so she is now a burden on him....

I have read many stories like this... even here in the US. There have been older brothers that were told by the father to kill their sister because she went on a date with a man... dishonored the family...

And get this... like the older sisters... if you are a woman and get raped... and REPORT it, then you committed a crime and can be killed also... by the government no less... but you would almost for sure be killed by your family...

When I was in Egypt, you did NOT see Muslim women working... the very few you would see were foreign women who worked at the resorts, but did not get out without an escort... and this is the modern Muslim country...

On one trip, there was a guy with his two wives... they sat in the back of the bus and did not do anything that he did not tell them to do... and did not talk to anybody at all.. at least nobody would say they talked to them...

This is the most backward religion that I know... and they are going to try and get their Sharia (sp??) law in some western countries if they are able... slowly do what they want...

So sorry for the young girl... but I bet nothing will be done to the father.
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Old 02-21-2008, 04:28 PM   #14
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Lot of stoning in the Bible, but it doesn't seem to be taken literally anymore.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=20&verse=27&version=31&context= verse

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:16 PM   #15
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Lot of stoning in the Bible, but it doesn't seem to be taken literally anymore.

I wouldn't be so sure...

Violence against LGBT people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It seems we navigate a slippery slope whenever we judge others simply for being who they are -- there will always be fringe dwellers, of all religions, who take the prevailing moral code to a violent extreme.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:59 PM   #16
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Some Europeans (Dutch, Danes, maybe Swedes, French) are beginning to think that it is us vs them (western civilization vs the Moslem world), that multi-culturalism doesn't work. That message has been brought to Canada in the press.

I work with some perfectly decent Iranians, Pakistanis and a couple of Turks who would be on the western side of the line if it came to a crunch. Others I know are on the other side today and are pressing to establish Moslem law in some fashion over here. They will succeed.
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:41 PM   #17
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Others I know are on the other side today and are pressing to establish Moslem law in some fashion over here. They will succeed.
I sure hope you are wrong.
There are an astounding number of people in the US who truly believe it is wrong and Chauvinistic for us to pass judgment on other cultures. "Who are we to say that our culture is right and another culture is wrong."
Idiots.
They need to see the logical result of this so-called enlightened viewpoint. Go live in some of these barbaric countries for a year and you will not feel that all cultures are morally equivalent.
I really do feel almost as sorry for the men in these cultures as for the the women. Joking aside, would any man really trade the love and companionship of a bright, witty, woman who is his equal for the begrudging fear/respect of a woman who is free only to obey him? What a lonely road that would be--and "adopting" 2 or 3 of these "pets" would hardly make things better.

One silver lining: cultures compete with each other for survival just as individuals do. Can a culture which throws away the intellectual capital of half its population really win out against the modern west? Can a society that believes religion s a better guide to the physical world than science really hope to beat the west? To win, all we have to do is capitalize on our strengths and not let our "acceptance" become "surrender of our principles."

Yep, the Bible (Old and New Testament) requires believers to do all kinds of horrific things, if read literally. Modern Christians in the west (no matter how "fundamental" they are or how "literal" they claim to believe the truth of the Bible is) don't really follow this guidance anymore, and the leaders of these faiths have found ways to skirt these issues. They cherry-pick the "love and kindness" lessons and leave behind the wrathful, avenging parts. That's good--we should all be thankful every day that the Enlightenment occurred.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:57 AM   #18
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Just remember, these are the people that Obama and others of his ilk want us to negotiate with.
Saluki, maybe you missed this.

It was very sad to read about Bush's visit as I'm reading Infidel by Ayaan Hirsan Ali . The author is funded by the American Enterprise Institute (the place where the neocons study).

It's easily to be manipulated by leaders who will use these stories as propaganda to push their political agenda. But, if they have something we need (like oil), our leaders often look the other way. If they need ammo for demonizing the enemy we'll hear these stories day after day. So caring for people only matters if it fits into the geopolitical framework.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:34 PM   #19
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Others I know are on the other side today and are pressing to establish Moslem law in some fashion over here. They will succeed.
Gosh, I thought we'd already implemented a system like that called "freedom of religion". How many more constitutional amendments do we need? Next thing you know the White House will be taken over by a fundamentalist who thinks God speaks to him... er... never mind.

It's not Islam's unique problem. It's corporate religion in general.

I know a lot of people who think their Judaism was a great culture/faith until the lawyers rabbis screwed it up by turning a few simple sanitation/hygeine guidelines into a complicated kosher code. As for propagating the (overly) strict Muslim interpretation of sharia in America, it'll work about as well as it has for the fundamentalist Baptists, Orthodox Jews, LDS, Mennonites, Amish, and other hard-liners trying to implement & propagate their codes. There'll be tiny dying enclaves of generational last-stand holdouts whose kids are quickly corrupted & dispersed by American consumerist materialism. Sorta the same policy we're pursuing with PRC, Cuba, Russia, Vietnam, North Korea, and the rest of the world.

A great example of this can be experienced by being stationed in Bahrain and watching thousands of "fervently religious" Muslims commuting there evenings/weekends to enjoy the relaxed standards (e.g., women drivers) that wouldn't be tolerated in their home countries. Heck, you can see the same thing in Phenix City with the local Baptist population and alcohol.

And before people get their religious knickers in a knot, I'll mention that I grew up in a strict Lutheran church that employed a (barely) functioning alcoholic pastor for over a decade before the fiercely divided congregation forced him out by one vote. The real religious fervor was reserved for shortening sermons in order to make kickoff at the Sunday Steeler's games, not for resolving hypocritical diatribes about tolerance (of a different sort) and living spiritually.

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Old 02-22-2008, 01:05 PM   #20
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A great day for a walk with Fluffy: NOT!

A 70-year-old Iranian man was arrested and sentenced to four months in jail and 30 lashes for walking his dog, Adnkronos.com reported Tuesday. Police caught the man on the street with his dog in Shahr Rey, a suburb of Tehran.
Owners of domestic animals are forbidden from taking them on the streets of the city because Islam considers dogs to be impure. An Islamic judge later charged the man for "disturbing the public order,” Adnkronos.com reported.
Despite repeated warnings by the police, dog owners continue to defy authorities by taking their dogs outside their homes. Typical punishment for people caught with dogs outside is a fine or the "detention" of their animals in a pound, Adnkronos.com reported.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad recently provoked debate in Iran about dog ownership when he took possession of four guard dogs, bought in Germany for approximately $161,040 each.
Click here to read more on this story from Adnkronos.com.
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