Toyota to the rescue

[laurence]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8170340/

I wish I could "help people" by charging people more! Seriously, how sad is our auto industry that we are being offered handouts? Is the threat of tariffs that serious, and in that case, what happened to the free market Capitalists Republicans we all love (oh yeah, they left when steel tariffs were imposed). Protectionism doesn't work!

 

[gwix98]

It is sad to see the decline of our auto industry.
Throughout my life I've had many cars, and when
I was younger they were mostly GM products.

But, once you have owned and driven Japanese cars,
and particularly Toyotas and Hondas, its very likely you
will never purchase a vehicle from one of the "big three"
again. The style and reliability keep bringing you back.
Take a look at our younger drivers. What do they drive,
and what do they aspire to drive? Its certainly not Chevys,
or Fords. These younger buyers will be our future buyers
too, and I doubt they will be rushing out to buy the next
GM product., even with huge price "discounts"
So, while its uncomfortable to see the decline of the U.S. auto industry, I really doubt there is anything that can be
done to stop the trend toward the Asian autos.

An aside: I heard that consumer reports as part of their
annual auto review and ratings had a catagory of
"reliability".

The top 10 included one Ford. Guess what the other
nine were?

 

[unclemick]

Of course - for those who follow history - they were taught early on - by an American who couldn't buy/let alone find an audience in the United States.

Japanese cars built in the U.S. by American workers generally have equal quality.

Hint - American management still can't sort the red beads from the white beads - if their a** depended on it - which in a way it does.

 

[Lazarus]

I own a Honda Accord, about 75,000 miles no problems at all. But I also own a Ford F-150 no problems with it either, about 55,000. My kids own Kias, haven't had them long enough to tell about reliability yet.

 

[laurence]

The thing is, the big three just don't learn. They had a respite from immolation due to the SUV craze. They ceded the car market to the Japanese and Europeans, and said, "hey, profit margins are bigger on SUV's and trucks anyway!". But they forgot business 101 and became addicted to one revenue stream, no diversification. Rather than research how to make cars that would compete, they just rested on their laurels. Now that gas prices have tanked their sales, the Japanese have started building great trucks, too. Between being gas guzzlers and having Tundras, Titans, and Ridgelines chewing on their ankles, the big three are in for some serious pain. I see a blockbuster merger attempt by one of them with a big three of Japan.

 

[haha]

I see a blockbuster merger attempt by one of them with a big three of Japan.

I think that would not be a very good idea from the Japanese Co's POV. Why pick up all the legacy costs of an American auto Co. After all, they can build all the plants they need in America well away from the unions.

Look what happended to Mercedes.

Also, Japanese Companies had better keep their powder dry to deal with the soon to arrive challenge at the bottom of the market from China.

Hah

 

[malakito]

The cars I've driven have been as follows:

1973 Chevy Impala station wagon
1979 Chevy F-150 pickup triuck
1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera sedan

1995 Toyota Corolla
2000 Honda Odyssey

In about 1993, I worked in a large office complex and since my wife and I had one car at the time, occasionally I had to wait out at the corner for my wife to come pick me up.  While I was waiting, I got to watch all of the people leaving in their cars.  After a while, I noticed something:  all the American cars sounded and looked like trash even when I could tell by the body style that they were only five or six years old, whereas all of the Japanese cars purred and looked in good shape even when they were as old or older than the American cars.  I realize it could be that owners of Japanese cars take better care of them, but since this seemed to hold true across hundreds of cars, I kind of discounted that explanation.

Since that time I have bought two cars -- the Toyota and the Honda -- and between them I have had 155,000+ miles with only two problems:  the starter contacts on the Toyota went bad once, and a little plastic part broke in the Toyota's inside rear-view mirror.  Other than that, the cars drive like new.  It's almost a problem for me because I can see these cars lasting easily another fifteen or twenty years, and by then I'll want a new car but won't be able to justify it unless these two start falling apart.  Sigh.  

malakito.

 

[laurence]

HaHa,

I didn't say the Japanese automaker would want it! It would be a last gasp/death rattle of one of the big three.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I drove nothing but japanese and german cars for about 14 years. Some made in japan, some made in america. The german cars were reliable but impossible to fix yourself and too expensive to maintain. The japanese cars, excepting a couple of really minor glitches that were fixed with one warranty claim, went on and on and on with just the usual maintenance.

I bought a chrysler product in the midst of that period. The car almost self-immolated. It went back under the lemon law.

Five years ago I bought an expedition. Its had a dozen trips to the dealer, had thousands of dollars in parts replaced, and has a pair of problems right now that i'm living with rather than pay $500 to fix them (if you tilt the wheel up more than halfway, the turn signals stop working...bad master switch which appears to be a widespread problem, and the power door locks unreliably lock/unlock the driver door). Half the interior trim is cheap plastic that looks like it was added as an afterthought. It has several simple operational problems that I cant believe exist in a modern automobile, for example if the wheel is turned to a certain degree, you cannot turn on the turn signal...at all...it resists any amount of pressure.

At the same time I bought my wife a toyota rav4. One trip in for a warranty problem regarding a brake noise where toyota replaced all the brakes for free.

I wont buy any more american made cars from the big three, or any foreign made owned by one of them, as they end up full of crappy big 3 parts. For example, I note that mazda's have an awful lot of ford parts in them these days.

I guess the good news is that at the current stock prices and debt ratings, its entirely possible that the non-US manufacturers will just buy the 'big 3' and leave it at that. Although since Mercedes bought Chrysler the quality of mercedes vehicles has dropped from top 5 to bottom 5.

 

[TK]

Had to pop in on this topic..

Have a 95 Ford Windstar - 208,000 miles
a 1988 Plymouth van - 176,000 miles
a ford F-150 pick-u9 - 167,000 miles
a 2002 Buick 75,000 miles
and a 66 Ford Fairlane - with 67,000 miles original

It is the maintenance that is important not the country of manufacture.

I buy vehicle to my socket set..If I have to buy a metric set - its a no gol!!!

 

[TromboneAl]

Toyota Motor Corp. is preparing to raise prices of its new cars in the United States by an average 2 percent to 3 percent in October out of consideration to its struggling U.S. rivals, the Asahi daily said on Friday.

So, what's really going on here?

Is Toyota just pretending to be Mr. Nice Guy in order to make money?  Who's going to believe that they really are being altruistic, forcing their stockholders to subsidize the American automakers?

Is there any benefit to Toyota to not putting its rivals out of business?

Has anyone figured this out?

 

[gwix98]

Malakito,TH,

You know what one of my favorite things is?

When you've driven the Japanese car for a zillion
miles, and you finally decide its time for a new style,
you still have something that is worth something on
trade in or sale outright.So you recover some of your
original cost.

Toyota is famous for contact problems with the
starters.
I am on my 5th Toyota product, and all 5 have
needed the contacts replaced. The motors are
always fine..just the contacts.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Come on, toyota just realized they can command a price premium and they're going to get it. That they're 'helping out the US automakers' is a nice spin, but spin it is.

Gwix...the end value point is important as a lot of people pass by the cars that cost more up front, but many will give you that money back in fewer headaches and higher resale.

TK - I do all my own maintenance where possible, so my vehicles have all had the same effort applied, which is generally to follow the manufacturers recommended maintenance schedule, slightly shortened. When I only owned american cars, I had a lot of problems but I was used to them. The culture shock for me, as mentioned, was owning predominately japanese cars for a long time and then dropping in a couple of american cars.

It probably doesnt help that the expedition just 'won' the award for one of the least reliable vehicles made.

 

[laurence]

But you can fit a kayak inside it! That rocks!

I do have to defend one American vehicle. Jeep's 4.0 litre inline 6 has been built forever, and is in my Grand Cherokee. 2002 Grand Cherokee's are listed as having very high reliability, the maintenence costs are low, it runs like a dream. There are some American cars that are worth the money. After 60k miles, I think my Jeep is one of them.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, thats why I bought it.

I had an '85 thunderbird that had nothing but 2 sets of brakes and 2 sets of tires along with regular maintenance through 155,000 miles. I honestly wanted something major to go wrong with it because I was tired of driving it.

That was a long time ago though.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

But you can fit a kayak inside it!  That rocks! 

I do have to defend one American vehicle.  Jeep's 4.0 litre inline 6 has been built forever, and is in my Grand Cherokee.  2002 Grand Cherokee's are listed as having very high reliability, the maintenence costs are low, it runs like a dream.  There are some American cars that are worth the money.  After 60k miles, I think my Jeep is one of them.

I agree! have owned several 4 liter - in line 6 cylinder Jeeps. Good
engine. Personally, I think not changing it contributes to its
good rep.

JG

 

[Whakamole]

Until recently, I had a ten year old American economy car (Saturn.) Have to admit that it ran until the end - but it didn't age well. Felt like a bucket of bolts.

By comparison, I've ridden in ten year old Japanese cars that still drove great. There's a reason people pay so much for them.

It's not American designers - some Japanese cars are US-designed and they are fine. It's not the autoworkers - Camry and Accord are both made on US soil and they are fantastic cars.

It's the idiots in corporate who screwed it up.

 

[LakeRat]

I have recently been considering a new Toyota Avalon to replace my Honda Accord that is 8 years old. I have had two Honda Accords (a '90 and a '98) following the lemon of all times (a '79 Chevy Monti Carlo). After the Chevy that was in the shop more than it was on the road, I said I would never again have a GM product. I have had no problems with either Honda. It amazes me to hear friends that have driven only GM products think it is normal to start replacing things on a vehicle that is barely out of warranty. I also kept thinking that the reliablity issue would become less evident as time went on, but it hasn't. GM's problems presist. They just haven't listened. I worked hard for my money, and I choose to use it wisely. That means I buy quality when I buy. GM just doesn't listen....

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I have recently been considering a new Toyota Avalon to replace my Honda Accord that is 8 years old.  I have had two Honda Accords (a '90 and a '98) following the lemon of all times (a '79 Chevy Monti Carlo).  After the Chevy that was in the shop more than it was on the road, I said I would never again have a GM product.  I have had no problems with either Honda.  It amazes me to hear friends that have driven only GM products think it is normal to start replacing things on a vehicle that is barely out of warranty.  I also kept thinking that the reliablity issue would become less evident as time went on, but it hasn't.  GM's problems presist.  They just haven't listened.  I worked hard for my money, and I choose to use it wisely.  That means I buy quality when I buy.  GM just doesn't listen....

I have a pile of money loaned to the GM "family". Even so, I can't really argue with your post.

JG

 

[unclemick]

Then there is always an oddball - 1994 GMC Sonoma 4 banger, 5 speed, with 243,000 miles. Nice thing about American cars - the price for parts in the junkyard is usually ok - although they come up a lot in the last ten years - used to be able to buy tires for less than it cost to mount and balance them - not any more.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Then there is always an oddball - 1994 GMC Sonoma 4 banger, 5 speed, with 243,000 miles. Nice thing about American cars - the price for parts in the junkyard is usually ok - although they come up a lot in the last ten years - used to be able to buy tires for less than it cost to mount and balance them - not any more.

Hi unclemick. I sold my "ranch truck" (1983 Ford Ranger 4 banger/4 speed) . Didn't want to sell, but I don't have a
ranch and my prospects don't look good. Anyway, all maintenance
was junkyard/salvage/improvised. Neat part is that I paid $400 for it, so even if it just imploded into a rust pile, not much was at risk.

JG

 

[unclemick]

Yep

To repeat a previous post - the 1999 Chevy Silverado, bought new - is a great advertisement for Toyota. Both GM - two different experiences. Go figure.

 

[HFWR]

Last three vehicles were Chev; nothing but minor complaints. 2000 Silverado currently with 53k, no problems. Sure, it's not a Toyota/Honda............

 

[Texas Proud]

Yep, thats why I bought it.

I had an '85 thunderbird that had nothing but 2 sets of brakes and 2 sets of tires along with regular maintenance through 155,000 miles.  I honestly wanted something major to go wrong with it because I was tired of driving it.

That was a long time ago though.

TH, then you were VERY LUCKY... I had an 85 Cougar and it was a piece of crap.. I will never buy a Ford product again because of how bad it was... it would stall for 'no apparent reason' when driving... I took it in many times and paid a lot of money, but it never would be 'fixed' for long... then Ford lost a lawsuit many years later. It was determined that they had a problem with their computer board getting too hot and causign the car to stall... they knew about it also but did not tell the mechanics!! They did not want a recall... PLUS, the car ate batteries like crazy... the longest I had a battery in the car was 12 months... but, I did not have to buy new ones since they were still under warrenty... I did have the car for 10 years, but had a 'back up' car in case it was not working..

I currently have a 95 Monte Carlo with very few repairs, (two alternators)... so I do not see the problems like others.. but a bad repair record only hits about 5 to 10% of cars anyhow...

 

[BUM]

Talk about your management problems and GM not listening; on the news last night I heard that for every car sold Toyota averages a couple thousand dollars. Every car GM sells loses the corporation a couple hundred....GM's solution? Lower prices :


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