Trader Joe's vs. Amazon and the rest of them

[kevink]

We're big TJ's fans and I also know Whole Foods all-too-well, since they acquired the company I used to work for and I spent plenty of time sitting in executive meetings.

As a serious "foodie" I find Trader Joe's most useful for produce (specifically fennel, Belgian endive, baby bok choy, bagged apples, English and Persian cucumbers, citrus and such) at prices that approach Costco's but in quantities that work ever-so-much-better for our two person household.

They have fabulous chocolate (72% Belgian Dark chocolate Almonds and 71% Cacao Valrhona specifically) at bargain prices, some very good frozen entrees ($4.99 for Kung Pao Chicken that's as good as what I make from scratch), nuts and dried fruit, very good dairy, superb value olive oil and spices, etc. They also have a lot of dud private label stuff and their famously cheap wines are often undrinkably bad. Still, all in all, I always feel like i get good value for money and service at TJ's.

Whole Foods invariably lives up to their "Whole Paycheck" reputation. Always expensive, rarely high quality it's fear-based (our products are "free from"....) food for the 1%. I'd thought things would improve there under Amazon's ownership, but am not seeing it so far.

 

[Scuba]

I love TJ’s for many things - cheese, crackers, nuts, olive oil, pasta sauce, pasta, tamales, fresh salmon, pork tenderloin, pork chops, eggs, butter, milk, dips, olive tapenade. We buy some produce there - bananas, tomatoes, basil, peppers, potatoes - but often their produce spoils more quickly than grocery store produce, and they don’t have as much variety. Almost never buy green vegetables or salads there. I like to pick my own broccoli, asparagus, green beans, etc. vs buying prepackaged. We do like some of their prepackaged salads, but some are really big and most have very short expiration dates. Love their lemon pepper precooked chicken, but don’t usually buy it because of the short expiration.

I’ve tried their frozen fish and didn’t love it. While we do buy a lot of things there, we definitely have to supplement them with Von’s, Costco, and Gelson’s.

 

[Moemg]

Our Trader Joe's is a distance from me so I occasionally shop Fresh Market . I feel so "Blow the Dough " when I go there . I love to just walk around and check out all their offerings .

 

[anethum]

A recent posting mentioned Amazon including some subtly labeled sponsored gift items in a list of baby shower items made by a customer.

Today I listened to this Freakonimics podcast (#359) on Trader Joe's and how it operates. They examine the big difference between modern grocery store marketing and how TJ's does it. Given that Amazon now owns a supermarket, I figure that is a good comparison to look at.

Should America Be Run by … Trader Joe’s? (Ep. 359) - Freakonomics Freakonomics

I enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for posting the link. I loved the comment from the founder of Trader Joe's about his target customers: "Trader Joe's is for over-educated and underpaid people." He selected Pasadena as the location for his first store.

The first time I was in an Aldi was 40 years ago in Germany. I had just crossed the border from France on my bike, and immediately met another touring cyclist, a hilarious guy from L.A. We both needed to buy some groceries and he said to me, "Let's go to the funny market." I asked him what the funny market was. He said, You've never been to an Aldi?"


I see a lot of parallels between how Trader Joe's is run and how Southwest Airlines is run. Both do things differently from their competitors, and both have very loyal followings that their competitors can only dream about. The employees at both also seem happier than employees at their competitors.

 

[Helen]

I love TJs, it's my happy place. We have one a mile from our house and it is also next to the train. I typically go there once a day. Sometimes I use it as a destination to get a walk in, there is always something I can pick up.

I follow a plant based diet, otherwise I don't think I could shop there. They have a lot of really tasty looking junk food. I am especially enjoying looking at their holiday products.

 

[Chuckanut]

I enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for posting the link. I loved the comment from the founder of Trader Joe's about his target customers: "Trader Joe's is for over-educated and underpaid people." He selected Pasadena as the location for his first store.

The first time I was in an Aldi was 40 years ago in Germany. I had just crossed the border from France on my bike, and immediately met another touring cyclist, a hilarious guy from L.A. We both needed to buy some groceries and he said to me, "Let's go to the funny market." I asked him what the funny market was. He said, You've never been to an Aldi?"


I see a lot of parallels between how Trader Joe's is run and how Southwest Airlines is run. Both do things differently from their competitors, and both have very loyal followings that their competitors can only dream about. The employees at both also seem happier than employees at their competitors.

I thought it interesting the TJ's stocks its shelves during business hours so as to put many employees on the floor for customer service. Compare that to my local Kroger's affiliate where, IMHO, finding a knowledgeable employee is like looking for Pats fan in Green Bay.

 

[Katsmeow]

I went to Trader Joe's and Aldi's a few times before we moved. Neither was very close to me and I was so disappointed that neither one had much we wanted. TJ was a little better. Now, they are about 15 minutes away but we have so many stores closer it isn't worth going to them.

I do shop at Costco from time to time. Main things I buy there:

1. Organic produce - mostly because it is fresher and more of it than at other stores.

2. Dark chocolate - more selection than most stores

3. Rotisserie Chicken - Can get many places but the ones at Costco tend to be good sized.

4. Occasionally single serving bags of chips that other stores don't carry

5. Stuff that is on sale, particularly for Prime members.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Trader Joes is the only supermarket I know that never overcharges me ever. Vons/Pavillions tries to rip me off on a regular basis.

 

[jazz4cash]

Do they still require a deposit on the shopping carts? That was interesting...

We have tried Lidl and it is OK, but not our go-to. Very strange that they dedicate a large section for "surprises," which is a bunch of random low quality tools and such. It must work for them.

Like Aldi's, they are based in Germany and have a lot of European import items.

Yeah. They still do that and I think it keeps a lot of people away. I saw a guy with a quarter “slug” clipped to his keychain. Interestingly we have a shiny new Aldi store that moved into a vacated fairly new Safeway (deja vu) but Aldi only needed half the space. Customers freely exchange carts and decline payment. Generally good vibe with customers and employees.

Made my second trip to Lidl which is not close by. We need two varieties of lactose free milk in our house. They were out of fat free on my 1st trip and out of 2% on my 2nd trip. Unacceptable but not too surprising since they charge $1.5 less per gal than traditional stores.

 

[RunningBum]

My recent TJ story:

I always buy canned cat food at TJs, in bulk, because the store isn't too convenient to me. 3 or 4 times the cashier has told me I can call and order cases. No discount though, and I always count the number I get of each and hand them one can and tell them, so it wouldn't be any easier on them. But OK. And the time before last they were almost all out, so I decided that next time, I'd call. They told me day before should work, but calling 2 days before is certain.

So I called 2 days before. Went to the counter, and the guy said, let me go get them. I waited, and waited, looking at the cans on the shelf and empty boxes of wine I could be filling and going on my way. Finally after 5 minutes or more, the guy came back, and grabbed an empty box. He was apologetic and embarrassed, but the cases didn't come in, or he couldn't find them. No big deal, just kind of funny. I was kind of hoping the cashier would make that suggestion again. Not sure what I'll do next time.

I used to get their frozen fish, but I like Costco's individually frozen rather than TJ's slightly frozen together at the ends packaging of salmon. Better cuts at Costco too.

Sometimes good beer at TJs, but I'm off beer for awhile. There's nothing else I prefer at TJs and it's usually crowded and being less convenient, I tend to only go when I'm running low on cat food, which is every few months.

 

[RunningBum]

I couldn't figure out Aldi brands at all. Is there stuff equivalent to name brands, or generic store brands? I sometimes get those store brands, but for that stuff is Aldi really cheaper? Groceries just aren't a big expense for me and I don't feel like dealing with that store.

 

[4legsgood]

Trader Joes is the only supermarket I know that never overcharges me ever. Vons/Pavillions tries to rip me off on a regular basis.

Same here, I think because TJ's never have sales. I love Trader Joe's, and really appreciate the fact that in general no junk ingredients in their products, though I still read the labels. I bargain hunt at other grocery store and I have the impression that the sale prices don't always make it into their computer system so always have to double check them.

 

[Chuckanut]

Sometimes good beer at TJs, but I'm off beer for awhile. There's nothing else I prefer at TJs and it's usually crowded and being less convenient, I tend to only go when I'm running low on cat food, which is every few months.

I like their Trader Jose's beers that are made in Mexico. Good quality, reasonable price and I don't have to buy a case of 24. I don't drink that much beer.

 

[ERD50]

I like their Trader Jose's beers that are made in Mexico. Good quality, reasonable price and I don't have to buy a case of 24. I don't drink that much beer.

That reminds me, this time of year they usually have a "Winter Lager", which IIRC, is actually a fairly decent DoppelBock. Not great, but quite good, and a very good price.

-ERD50

 

[jazz4cash]

I couldn't figure out Aldi brands at all. Is there stuff equivalent to name brands, or generic store brands? I sometimes get those store brands, but for that stuff is Aldi really cheaper? Groceries just aren't a big expense for me and I don't feel like dealing with that store.

I’m not all that big on name brands anyway (except Hellman’s and Breyer’s), but I’d compare it to national brands. I’m surprised to see more national brands at Aldis. I think it varies from product to product.
One of a zillion Aldi YouTube clips.

 

[NW-Bound]

...
I see a lot of parallels between how Trader Joe's is run and how Southwest Airlines is run. Both do things differently from their competitors, and both have very loyal followings that their competitors can only dream about. The employees at both also seem happier than employees at their competitors.

I don't know about SW Airlines, but some years ago I noticed the same thing about TJ's employees. Also workers at Costco.

Then, I read that TJ's offered health insurance to its employees along with other benefits. Costco also treated its employees well. Then, it all made sense to me how the workers seemed happier than those at other stores.

 

[clifp]

Pretty much every time I visit the mainland. I go to trader joe to stock up on various things, for my sister and myself.

I started listening to the podcast, I no idea they were that successful as business, nor that they didn't advertise.

About 5 years ago Trader Joe's, announced that they WERE NOT opening stores in Hawaii. It made the front page of the newspaper and caused a lot of disappointment for us Mainland folks who used to shop there.

 

[jazz4cash]

I thought it interesting the TJ's stocks its shelves during business hours so as to put many employees on the floor for customer service. Compare that to my local Kroger's affiliate where, IMHO, finding a knowledgeable employee is like looking for Pats fan in Green Bay.

Most of the big name stores I go to also stock during business hours. They use vendor employees that don’t have a clue about anything other than their product. They tend to clog the aisles with inventory making it difficult for shoppers to navigate through the store. That’s a huge difference.

 

[pb4uski]

A couple years ago an Aldis opened a few miles down the road. Aldis is really growing on me. We use them a lot for basics ... very reasonable prices in our experience.

 

[CaptTom]

I'm somewhat encouraged by what I'm reading here. It almost looks like a trend...

Big companies, in competitive sectors (supermarkets, airlines, big-box membership stores) are treating their employees and customers well, AND making good profits and fair returns on investment for their stockholders.

I will continue to call BS whenever I hear a MegaCorp HR person, or any MegaCorp apologist, crying about how they HAVE to reduce benefits and screw employees at every opportunity, just to stay in business.

Sadly, I do hear this a lot, even here on this forum.

 

[ERD50]

I'm somewhat encouraged by what I'm reading here. It almost looks like a trend...

Big companies, in competitive sectors (supermarkets, airlines, big-box membership stores) are treating their employees and customers well, AND making good profits and fair returns on investment for their stockholders.

I will continue to call BS whenever I hear a MegaCorp HR person, or any MegaCorp apologist, crying about how they HAVE to reduce benefits and screw employees at every opportunity, just to stay in business.

Sadly, I do hear this a lot, even here on this forum.

I don't think of this as 'sad', or 'good/bad' - it just is.

I believe in the free market. If people are willing to work for a company that treats them 'poorly', then that must still be the best alternative for them out there. It's all relative. If another company can attract better talent, and make good use of it, by treating them 'well', then they can do that.

It's the companies choice to do as they see fit for their business. And I can also decide not to shop there. If they are making a mistake, they can change or go under.

I always say, if you think it works so well, start a company and give it a go!

I do support certain regulations as far as health and safety (but not wages). Health and safety isn't always obvious to the worker, it's not transparent, so I do think standards are needed to protect workers. But wages are transparent. Let the worker decide if they are willing to do the job for $x/hour or not.

Let's not forget, some of this is due to the 'flat world', and increased competition from abroad. Some people in 2nd/3rd world companies are taking jobs that improve their standard of living by a large margin, and those jobs would be considered terrible treatment here in the States. So big picture-wise, on average maybe more 'good' is being done for humankind by lifting up the very poor, even if it means somewhat worse conditions (relative to what they were accustomed to) for the 1st world workers.

And I've experienced it personally. Towards the end of my career, Engineers and Managers in China were making a fraction of my salary, doing the same work, and probably working harder than me. Who am I to tell MegaCorp that I 'deserve' my higher salary to support my standard of living? I think that is arrogant. And yes, a lot of workers here in the US had to find other jobs. But a lot of very poor people in other countries benefited, and likely by a higher degree. It just 'is'.

-ERD50

 

[CaptTom]

My point was, all those arguments about how companies "have to" treat their employees (and customers) poorly are disproved by the fact that some companies are able to be very successful, and still treat their employees and customers well.

In other words, if Trader Joe's, Costco, Southwest Airlines and Demoula's Market Basket can all provide their owners and/or stockholders with good returns, offer good prices to their customers, and give good pay and benefits to their employees, what excuse do their competitors have for not doing these things?

 

[ERD50]

My point was, all those arguments about how companies "have to" treat their employees (and customers) poorly are disproved by the fact that some companies are able to be very successful, and still treat their employees and customers well.

In other words, if Trader Joe's, Costco, Southwest Airlines and Demoula's Market Basket can all provide their owners and/or stockholders with good returns, offer good prices to their customers, and give good pay and benefits to their employees, what excuse do their competitors have for not doing these things?

I just don't look at it as what xyz company "has to do". They are free to do as they wish (within the law/regs).

I've read some explanations for some of this. For example, I think they say Costco has much higher sales per employee than Walmart, and has reasons why they want to treat their employees better. But I just say it is their choice, and you and I can decide if we want to shop there, or buy their stock.

You can make all sorts of comparisons like this. If a car manufacturer is successful selling only high performance, expensive cars, does it hold that's the model all car makers should follow?

I don't know the answers to all your questions, because I don't run those businesses and I don't have all the inside info. And maybe some of them are simply making big mistakes. I'll say it again - if you think this is so simple, do mankind a favor and start and grow a successful business that treats its employees and customers like kings. Grow it so big and so well that everyone will want to work for you and be your customer. We would all appreciate that.

Basically, I'm saying it is easy to be an armchair quarterback.

-ERD50

 

[nash031]

Trader Joes is the only supermarket I know that never overcharges me ever. Vons/Pavillions tries to rip me off on a regular basis.

Yeah, I read the comment earlier about how someone thought they’d go broke buying essentials at TJs and chuckled. TJs is cheaper for milk, eggs, butter, all the fruit we eat, etc., than Von’s. I like their cheeses, I’m drinking 3-buck Chuck right now with wifey pregnant. I wish they had a bulk section, then I’d never have reason to go anywhere else. Sprouts is in the same shopping center which is a ten minute drive, but we have a Vons within walking distance for convenience too. I was surprised TJs was so much less expensive.

 

[jazz4cash]

Yeah, I read the comment earlier about how someone thought they’d go broke buying essentials at TJs and chuckled. TJs is cheaper for milk, eggs, butter, all the fruit we eat, etc., than Von’s. I like their cheeses, I’m drinking 3-buck Chuck right now with wifey pregnant. I wish they had a bulk section, then I’d never have reason to go anywhere else. Sprouts is in the same shopping center which is a ten minute drive, but we have a Vons within walking distance for convenience too. I was surprised TJs was so much less expensive.

Growing up in the DC area, we only had two grocery store chains. Safeway is where everybody tended to go. When I moved to CA which is where Safeway is based, everybody said it was the highest priced chain and they went to Von's or Albertson's or wherever. Now Safeway appears to be withdrawing from the DC market with many new chains coming in. I went to the only TJ's I know of in the area (because of this thread) and their milk prices were exactly the same as the big chain stores. I guess it really varies from location to location. It's really nice being retired and having time to go to different stores to buy whatever they have that I like.