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Old 07-24-2016, 08:05 AM   #21
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AL,
I get this. A toy with function. Gets you into town extra time each week. Time for sbux too. Sounds like a shared passion with more fun time with the boss.
Sounds great - unless you have a spouse who has a problem with impulse spending. All that spare time surrounded by retail establishments can be hazardous to your financial well being.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:24 AM   #22
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Sounds great - unless you have a spouse who has a problem with impulse spending. All that spare time surrounded by retail establishments can be hazardous to your financial well being.
I totally agree. AL needs another column in his comparison sheet. Take time spent charging in town times $100 per hour and factor that into the effective cost of electric car.


LOL, with hybrid or gas vehicle you stop at some convenience store for 10 minutes, buy a stale sandwich, and fill up with the smelly stuff in tank.

On a serious note, I happened to be on way to gas station yesterday, and saw the "--" readout that AL referred to. It really disoriented me. It may have indicated something less than 25 miles to go, then went to dash-dash. Oh my...
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:30 AM   #23
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Give it up T-Al. There is no way this group is going to accept the fact that you are happy with your electric car. It would just hurt too much.
I'm not sure what the term is for a post like this. It's fairly common to see, the poster says something to make the other posts sound negative, when there is no evidence of that. Here's what people said:

Quote:
Anyway, I'm glad the little car is bringing joy.

I'm interested in LEAFs so am interested in your post.

I'm glad you are enjoying your new ride,
That doesn't sound like anyone is not accepting his joy with the new car to me. But the line about it being 'fun' to come close to not making it home seemed odd enough to draw lots of comments.

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While I am in immense admiration for the OP and dedication to the environment. ...
OK, you really don't want to get me started on exposing this myth again, do you? Short version - the marginal added electrical power generated to charge EVs will be worse for the environment than a decent hybrid running only on gasoline. Average grid power isn't the right measure, if a grid has only X% renewables, they are already all used up (or they would report number higher than X!). Adding EVs requires a draw from other available sources that can be added on demand - most likely fossil fuel.

You can search my other posts on the subject to avoid derailing this thread.

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Old 07-24-2016, 08:41 AM   #24
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That's it. He is just faking happiness to make us feel bad because he is happy.
Who feels bad?
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:50 AM   #25
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.....
LOL, with hybrid or gas vehicle you stop at some convenience store for 10 minutes, buy a stale sandwich, and fill up with the smelly stuff in tank.

....
Driving a gas vehicle helps me with my waistline, I don't buy food at a gas station as who wants to eat with the smell of gas, or I might get gas on the hands which smells for a long time..
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:54 AM   #26
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Sounds a little nerve wracking, having to tailor your trips to a limited amount of charging stations. What if they are busy? And the wait time?

Do you have to swipe a credit card at the charging station, or is it "free"? I can guess who ends up paying for the energy if it's "free".

Anyhow, thanks for sharing the experience.

_B
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:57 AM   #27
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But my Prius was $25k new...
OK so I exaggerated. I lease all my cars so I really do not consider the New price over the long term. Only what it cost per year to drive, I allocate ~$5k per year, but like everything else I adjust every lease period. (leasing for me is a convenience this not an affordability thing, you lose money either way).
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:11 AM   #28
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Driving a gas vehicle helps me with my waistline, I don't buy food at a gas station as who wants to eat with the smell of gas, or I might get gas on the hands which smells for a long time..
In the glorious state of NJ we do not pump gas. Picture this utopian setting. People motor up to the 12 banks of pumps, get out of car, attendant swipes card, you go in for bathroom relief, hoagie, etc. Go back to car and drive off into the Sunset!

https://www.wawa.com/
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:22 AM   #29
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I'm not sure what the term is for a post like this. It's fairly common to see, the poster says something to make the other posts sound negative, when there is no evidence of that. Here's what people said:
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.......... you're going to have to explain to me...
.............what makes that 'fun'? Driving an ICE on empty is a little nerve racking, better to have plenty of reserve at all times...............

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Not normal?
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Originally Posted by Markola View Post
What is the plan if you run out of juice on the road?............ .
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Originally Posted by samclem View Post
If getting home depends on the availability of a charging station, what happens if they are all occupied when you arrive? ...........
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Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
............. I cannot for the life of me understand WHY anyone would drive an electric car or a hybrid commuter car.........................
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You are nuts, T-Al. That sounds scary as hell. .............
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...............
From what I have read, battery degradation is is common with the Leaf due to no active thermal management system. This is one of the reasons way these cars hit the used market frequently and are priced low.
.............
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.......... maybe it's a simple case of green smugness...
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Sounds a little nerve wracking, having to tailor your trips to a limited amount of charging stations...........
_B
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The "green" happy feeling wears off the first time you run out of juice on an interstate.

My apologies, ERD. On reviewing the posts, I can't seem to find a single negative comment.
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:31 AM   #30
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That's it. He is just faking happiness to make us feel bad because he is happy.
The "green" happy feeling wears off the first time you run out of juice on an interstate.
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:55 AM   #31
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Just give it some time and you will see what the electric can or will do in the future.

It is just a baby taking baby steps, it is like comparing this to model T. Those engines where horrible.

If I could afford a hybrid car, I will purchase the GM volt.
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:56 AM   #32
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My apologies, ERD. On reviewing the posts, I can't seem to find a single negative comment.
But those "negative comments" (some were just questions) were directed mostly at the comment about the 'fun' of running low on charge. I still don't think anyone was questioning or challenging his overall 'joy' of the vehicle.


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Old 07-24-2016, 10:07 AM   #33
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Just give it some time and you will see what the electric can or will do in the future.

It is just a baby taking baby steps, it is like comparing this to model T. Those engines where horrible.
No, it's not like comparing to a model T at all. It's not true and it's an insult to any EV owner!

Electric motors and controllers are a mature technology, and there isn't any big opportunity for efficiency improvement (they are already at 90+ efficiency, and you can't reach 100%!). There will be improvements in cost, size, weight - but expect those to be incremental.

Batteries will incrementally improve in cost, size, weight, durability. But again, efficiencies are already high (+80% round trip?).

Yes, EVs will improve, but not anything at all like Model-T versus modern cars. Not at all.


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If I could afford a hybrid car, I will purchase the GM volt.
I think hybrids just make so much more sense for most people. The advantage of the energy density and availability of petroleum fuel is too big for EVs to overcome in many cases. While many/most trips will be within the range of an EV, the occasional (and often unpredictable) need to go beyond that range and not wait for a charge is a big negative for a lot of people.

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Old 07-24-2016, 10:10 AM   #34
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The most fun is driving beyond your range--needing to get a charge if you want to make it home. Today we went on a 113-mile trip...
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Living on the wild side!

I worked with a guy who thought it great fun to see how low he could go on fuel before gassing up. He loved timing it so that his engine died of fuel starvation and he coasted to the pumps.
I can definitely say this is not for me. The "fun" or thrill seeking that is, not about the car. If I need another car, I may look into getting an inexpensive Leaf to run errands, but driving around with the danger of getting stranded is not for me. My wife would certainly not come along.

I think most posters here would not go for this thrill either. Heck, we are a bunch of scaredy cats who are proud to live on 2 or 3% WR, and not counting on SS, and all that belts and suspenders stuff.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:21 AM   #35
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But those "negative comments" (some were just questions) were directed mostly at the comment about the 'fun' of running low on charge. I still don't think anyone was questioning or challenging his overall 'joy' of the vehicle.


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I guess I missed T-Al's request for advice. He seems very happy with his purchase.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:38 AM   #36
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We've got a 2012 Leaf, and really enjoy it. The acceleration is fantastic (electric motors FTW), and since most of our errands are short hops, range worry is pretty much nonexistent. Learning your car, and plotting out your route in Google Maps takes care of that.

That being said, since we don't have a good charging network here (as far as I know), we also have an ICE car for road trips and visits to friends that are further than 30 miles or so.

Additionally, the battery capacity drops substantially in MN winters, so once it gets cold enough I drive it to work occasionally if DH is working at the "far office" that day, as opposed to the "near office" or at home. (My commute is uniformly short.)

It was a calculated risk on a relatively new type of car. We have the luxury of being able to support a new technology, and we knew the risk when we took it.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:50 AM   #37
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But it's certainly not a BMW though. Not even close or nearly as much fun!

Can't really argue with that, but if I'd bought McMansions and Euro cars, I'd still be w*rking, which is not nearly as fun as being FIRED... I'm perfectly content with that choice!
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:57 AM   #38
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But it's certainly not a BMW though. Not even close or nearly as much fun!
-1

I would have more fun with a Leaf than a BMW.

But, but, but they've got to give me more range for me to use it for more than running errands to the grocery stores or to Home Depot.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:03 AM   #39
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-1

I would have more fun with a Leaf than a BMW.

But, but, but they've got to give me more range for me to use it for more than running errands to the grocery stores or to Home Depot.
The BMW diesel is a fun car.

Other BMW's, not so much. But I am not the type of person that would buy an electric car. I doubt very much that I would even consider a hybrid given the premium that goes with its price.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:10 AM   #40
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Sure.

I was just trying to say that people have different ideas of fun. For example, while many enjoy watching a ball game with rowdy and cheering friends, I would rather listen to some jazzy music, and studying diagrams of different hybrid PLL-DS synthesizer designs. Not too many people think of that as a pastime.
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