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Old 07-24-2016, 12:43 PM   #41
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That sounds like fun, Al. I think you should write a children's book when you have a grandchild, because I am loving the picture in my mind of modern Grandpa and Grandma at Starbucks with the knitting and the laptop writing, and the EV out at the charging stand.
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Old 07-24-2016, 12:45 PM   #42
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Glad you're having fun with the new ride Al.
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Old 07-24-2016, 01:03 PM   #43
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I guess I missed T-Al's request for advice. He seems very happy with his purchase.
What does "advice" have to do with anything?

A positive " I'm glad you are enjoying your new ride ", and then some questions about why he thinks running low on charge is 'fun'. No "advice" given, and none requested, as far as I can see.

Some people I think mentioned an EV wouldn't be for them, due to the range limits. So what, it's just conversation? We know from previous posts that T-Al is well aware of the range issues with a Leaf, and he's well aware that he wouldn't have those same range issues with an ICE/hybrid, or a Tesla (something I suggested, since he wanted an EV, mentioned that he was loosening the purse strings, and the round trip to town was somewhat marginal for the Leaf). He chose the Leaf fully aware of all this.

He said he's happy with the car. That's great. Now, I'm still curious about the 'fun' of running low on charge. Nothing more, nothing less. He could have that kind of 'fun' with an ICE if he wanted (only put 3 gallons in at a time for added 'fun'). It's an odd statement from a normally pretty level-headed guy. I don't think our curiosity is misplaced.

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Old 07-24-2016, 02:46 PM   #44
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What does "advice" have to do with anything?

A positive " I'm glad you are enjoying your new ride ", and then some questions about why he thinks running low on charge is 'fun'. No "advice" given, and none requested, as far as I can see.

Some people I think mentioned an EV wouldn't be for them, due to the range limits. So what, it's just conversation? We know from previous posts that T-Al is well aware of the range issues with a Leaf, and he's well aware that he wouldn't have those same range issues with an ICE/hybrid, or a Tesla (something I suggested, since he wanted an EV, mentioned that he was loosening the purse strings, and the round trip to town was somewhat marginal for the Leaf). He chose the Leaf fully aware of all this.

He said he's happy with the car. That's great. Now, I'm still curious about the 'fun' of running low on charge. Nothing more, nothing less. He could have that kind of 'fun' with an ICE if he wanted (only put 3 gallons in at a time for added 'fun'). It's an odd statement from a normally pretty level-headed guy. I don't think our curiosity is misplaced.

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Al's got a new car. He chose it, he is proud of it and he is enjoying it. Would it kill you to just be happy for him and wish him well?

I've seen a lot of new babies and most of them were ugly, red and wrinkled. I told the mothers they were lovely.
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Old 07-24-2016, 02:52 PM   #45
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I've seen a lot of new babies and most of them were ugly, red and wrinkled. I told the mothers they were lovely.
Not the babies in my family. They were all plumb, and pretty.
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Old 07-24-2016, 02:57 PM   #46
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Not the babies in my family. They were all plumb, and pretty.
Lucky you. All the babies in my family were out of plumb - even so, everyone still thought they were pretty.
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:13 PM   #47
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Meant to write "plum".

However, if your babies were out of plumb, it was not their fault. You just did not hold them up right.
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:15 PM   #48
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The "green" happy feeling wears off the first time you run out of juice on an interstate.
150,000 miles of driving electric in our family, the happy feeling has yet to wear off

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That sounds like fun, Al. I think you should write a children's book when you have a grandchild, because I am loving the picture in my mind of modern Grandpa and Grandma at Starbucks with the knitting and the laptop writing, and the EV out at the charging stand.
That is awesome, love the idea

Al, congratulations on the car and experience. It is a lot of fun, and I can't imagine going back to a gas/diesel car.
Glad to hear you found the range that works well for you.
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:16 PM   #49
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Al's got a new car. He chose it, he is proud of it and he is enjoying it. Would it kill you to just be happy for him and wish him well? ...
I did.

It seems you either have a reading comprehension problem, or just have some sort of bias about this.

I won't bother with any further attempts at communication with you regarding this, I'll just wait to see if T-Al wishes to reply and explain his 'fun' comment for the benefit of all of us that commented on it.

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Old 07-24-2016, 03:24 PM   #50
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My apologies, ERD. On reviewing the posts, I can't seem to find a single negative comment.
If I came across as being negative then I apologize as that wasn't my intent. I was commenting on the limited refueling opportunities for EVs and how that would restrict the driving experience.

I'm glad TA is enjoying the Leaf, I'd like to hear more along the way.

_B
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:29 PM   #51
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I did.

It seems you either have a reading comprehension problem, or just have some sort of bias about this.

I won't bother with any further attempts at communication with you regarding this, I'll just wait to see if T-Al wishes to reply and explain his 'fun' comment for the benefit of all of us that commented on it.

-ERD50
I recognize that Al doesn't owe you or anyone else a justification for his choice of car or how far he chooses to drive it. He is a smart guy, is having fun and probably has a cell phone and a AAA card.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:42 PM   #52
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I'm glad you are enjoying your new ride, but you're going to have to explain to me...

The most fun is driving beyond your range--needing to get a charge if you want to make it home.

what makes that 'fun'? Driving an ICE on empty is a little nerve racking, better to have plenty of reserve at all times. And assuming you stay close enough to a gas station to pull into, a refill only takes a few minutes, not hours.

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This is "living on the edge" for senior citizens.

Actually, it's not terribly risky, because there are lots of charging stations around here. That is, even if a station is offline, we could make it to another.



Last week, we went to Ferndale and the charger was down. No problem, we went to the Bear River Casino and charged at their free station while we had a fancy lunch, and got $20 of free gambling money (and won $1.34. Yay!).

Perhaps it's just fun to drive further than we thought we could.

Lena went out later yesterday, so our mileage total was 135 miles for the day.

>What is the plan if you run out of juice on the road? Flat bed truck or do they have some kind of portable charger? I'm interested in LEAFs so am interested in your post.

Even though we bought it used, we have three years of free roadside assistance. Run out, and they will come tow you.

When I was pushing the limit, my biggest worry was that they'd tow me home, and the neighbors would think, "Told you so!"

Some tow trucks have chargers in them, though not around here.

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One thing to keep in mind Al is that the Leaf battery does not have an active cooling system and relies on air passing over it to cool it. You must be very careful in hot weather to make sure your battery life meter has is left with plenty of buffer to get you to a charging station.

From what I have read, battery degradation is is common with the Leaf due to no active thermal management system. This is one of the reasons way these cars hit the used market frequently and are priced low.

I'm glad you like it, but caution you on the battery issue in hot weather.
It's not an issue here. Typical summer highs are sixty degrees here. Even with the current heat dome, it's 56 now, and I have a fire in the fireplace. Also, it never gets cold.

One guy here has 30,000 miles on his battery (2013?), and it is at 11/12ths of capacity.

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How about carrying a generator in the back with a gal of gas, so you can plug in anywhere
It's been done, but it isn't practical.

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If getting home depends on the availability of a charging station, what happens if they are all occupied when you arrive? It's not like having to wait 2 minutes while the guy in front fills his gas tank, and it's not like there's another charging station on every corner.
So far, that's only happened once, and we just drove a few blocks to another charger.

As long as the charging station frequency increases faster than the cars, we're good.

The bigger problem are the "ice-holes." People who park their ICE vehicle in a charging spot. Haven't seen that yet.

Also, some EV owners, like me, put a sign on their dashboard that says "You may unplug me at ??:??. My phone # is. xxx-xxx-xxxx.

I had someone call me, and I ended my coffee drinking a bit early so that he could charge.
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:14 PM   #53
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While I am in immense admiration for the OP and dedication to the environment. I cannot for the life of me understand WHY anyone would drive an electric car
For me, it had nothing to do with the environment. I wanted one for the fun of it.

Most of our trips are well within the range.

You can't understand it unless you drive one for a while. It has greater acceleration, by far, than any vehicle I've owned. There's something fun about the quiet power.

Part of it may be simply the improvement in quality/comfort over the Echo.

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Sounds a little nerve wracking, having to tailor your trips to a limited amount of charging stations. What if they are busy? And the wait time?

Do you have to swipe a credit card at the charging station, or is it "free"? I can guess who ends up paying for the energy if it's "free".
There really are plenty around. There are two that are on the way home, 7 miles from our house. If I'm getting low, and not experimenting, I can always stop there. Won't take long to add enough to get me home.

There are eight stations around that are free. But Lena reminds me I have to remind myself, that the ones that charge are only a dollar or two per charge (e.g. $.48 + .18 per kWh).

We have RFID cards that we "tap" on the station to pay. You put $25 in the "bank," and it draws from that. You can also use your smartphone, and you can view the status of your charging. Like this:



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But it's certainly not a BMW though. Not even close or nearly as much fun!
I test drove a BMW i3. Fantastic, but the range was only 60 miles, and I didn't want the gas range extender.

-----------------------

Despite that one trip where I intentionally pushed the limits, range anxiety is clearly overblown. We haven't gotten to the point where we ignore the "miles remaining," but it's no longer a concern.

And don't forget the fun of scaring the bejeezus out of pedestrians. The car makes an artificial noise at low speeds, but it's still quiet.
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:46 PM   #54
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How about carrying a generator in the back with a gal of gas, so you can plug in anywhere
If the generator is the common portable Honda generator 2000i at 1.6 kW output, then each hour of charging will get you 6 miles. That's using the 3.9 miles/kWh that T-Al observed with his Leaf.

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Old 07-24-2016, 08:15 PM   #55
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We've got a 2012 Leaf, and really enjoy it.

Additionally, the battery capacity drops substantially in MN winters, so once it gets cold enough I drive it to work occasionally if DH is working at the "far office" that day, as opposed to the "near office" or at home.
I had a co-worker ask me what I thought about the Leaf. I don't know enough to have an opinion.

What do they do for heat in the winter? Or A/C in the summer? That would seem to impact the range considerably.

I can see the appeal in moderate climates and with 'free' recharging stations.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:33 PM   #56
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I had a co-worker ask me what I thought about the Leaf. I don't know enough to have an opinion.

What do they do for heat in the winter? Or A/C in the summer? That would seem to impact the range considerably.

I can see the appeal in moderate climates and with 'free' recharging stations.
It's true it affects range. It has heated seats. The top models have heated steering wheels. When you turn on the conventional heating, it takes a while to get started.

You can tell it to prepare the cabin to a set temperature at a given time. Thus, it will heat up or cool down while it's charging, using the power from the wall.

While it was still charging yesterday, out in the sun, I turned on the AC.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:43 PM   #57
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I like electric cars but they have too many wheels.

Two wheels is all I need -

Zero to 60 in 3.3 seconds? I think I need one of these for "burger runs" -
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:00 PM   #58
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I had a co-worker ask me what I thought about the Leaf. I don't know enough to have an opinion.

What do they do for heat in the winter? Or A/C in the summer? That would seem to impact the range considerably.

I can see the appeal in moderate climates and with 'free' recharging stations.
Cold temps will impact your range more that hot temperatures. AC takes less energy than heating.
In addition, air is less dense the warmer it is, which helps, or completely off sets AC.

As for winter, you need to be aware you will loose 15-30% of your range. If that range still fits your needs, it will probably be the best winter car you have ever owned.

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I like electric cars but they have too many wheels.

Two wheels is all I need -

Zero to 60 in 3.3 seconds? I think I need one of these for "burger runs" -
Those electric bikes are pretty cool. With all the people reading the paper, playing Pokemon and such, I'll never use a motorcycle on public roads.
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Old 07-25-2016, 01:13 AM   #59
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In the glorious state of NJ we do not pump gas. Picture this utopian setting. People motor up to the 12 banks of pumps, get out of car, attendant swipes card, you go in for bathroom relief, hoagie, etc. Go back to car and drive off into the Sunset!

https://www.wawa.com/
Amazing.... it's like back to the future. Reminds me of around 1970 , and they would even check the oil too.
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Old 07-25-2016, 07:57 AM   #60
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Excellent thread. It has really helped me with my thinking about electric cars.
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