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Two recent US Navy collisions at sea
Old 08-20-2017, 08:20 PM   #1
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Two recent US Navy collisions at sea

My DS & DIL are graduates of Cal Maritime. I remember teasing a retired Naval Officer on the Bainbridge Ferry years ago about the fact that a US Merchant ship has a crew of typically 36 including engineers, stewards and able bodied seamen while a US Navy ship has that many on the bridge when underway. The response was that if you added the training of the Navy staff on the bridge compared to that of merchant Deck Officers and Helmsmen the merchant crew would be head and shoulders above.

One incident is a mistake, two reflects a grievous lack of training.

God, I hope our sub crews are better seamen.
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:14 PM   #2
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Well, it is not only the Navy. My late wife's cousin was on a Norwegian Cruise line ship that collided in the English Channel with a container ship.
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:38 PM   #3
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Yeah, it's definitely not a lack of training. IMO it's a lack of adherence to established practices and procedures to which we are trained.
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:35 PM   #4
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Yeah, it's definitely not a lack of training. IMO it's a lack of adherence to established practices and procedures to which we are trained.
I keep looking for something like that but I cannot imagine that kind of thinking, those kinds of lapses becoming that pervasive in the Navy. I think it's probably more like just an embarrassing confluence of events. I hope.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:22 AM   #5
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Maybe the Chinese or Koreans have bribed some merchant ship crew to create collisions with US Navy ships?
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:54 AM   #6
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The only budget increase without controversy is military spending. The US spends more than the rest of the world on military. Should we have some accountability? Just increasing spending will not solve any problem.
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Old 08-21-2017, 06:32 AM   #7
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I used to be concerned about our ships and the development of anti-ship missiles. It appears that our enemies can now conclude that no such technology is necessary. They can merely sneak up on our warships with a freighter and ram them.


Condolences to the families of those lost or injured.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:29 AM   #8
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I keep looking for something like that but I cannot imagine that kind of thinking, those kinds of lapses becoming that pervasive in the Navy. I think it's probably more like just an embarrassing confluence of events. I hope.
In terms of probability, yeah, collisions happen. That we've had two bad ones in one month's time is unfortunate. I'm certain that we'll have all kinds of knee-jerk training to go through in light of these incidents, but the training we receive today is markedly better than it was 18 years ago when I started.

I suspect that lack of underway time due to fuel costs and budget reductions plays a role, but I do think when the dust settles, Fitz will be shown to be exactly those kinds of lapses with watch standers simply not paying attention and it being watch turnover time, but JSM is probably more likely a loss of situational awareness in a very high traffic area. We'll see. Those are just my opinions based on what I've read and what I know, nothing more.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:19 AM   #9
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A merchant ship in US waters in heavily or tricky shipping lanes is required to have a licenced Pilot for that specific area and the Captain on the bridge. For example there are Columbia River Bar Pilots and Columbia River Pilots - different certifications. Ships do not just turnover watches under those conditions because handoffs take time for seamen to process traffic.

My son once said that in cases of collision BOTH ships are at wrong.

Honest, collision between big ships is rare. The fact that two this month tells me that Navy procedures are not up to par.
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:23 AM   #10
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The only budget increase without controversy is military spending.
I guess you are making a joke here?

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The US spends more than the rest of the world on military.
Absolutely not true. The US spends a lot, but nowhere near as much as the rest of the world (per SIPRI and IISS, as given by Wikipedia). The military spending of the rest of the world combined is 175% as much as the US military spending.
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:34 AM   #11
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I guess you are making a joke here?

Absolutely not true. The US spends a lot, but nowhere near as much as the rest of the world (per SIPRI and IISS, as given by Wikipedia). The military spending of the rest of the world combined is 175% as much as the US military spending.
OK. I correct my statement a little, the U.S. spends more on defense than the next 8 countries combined, and for 37% of total world spending.

Every time there is an election, the candidate will never make a mistake if he/she proposes to increase military spending or hiring more police, regardless of the party.
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #12
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:37 AM   #13
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Maybe the Chinese or Koreans have bribed some merchant ship crew to create collisions with US Navy ships?

LOL... that is what my oldest sister said!!
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:26 PM   #14
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