Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Two Seater VTOL Jet in 2012?
Old 04-11-2015, 11:16 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,199
Two Seater VTOL Jet in 2012?

Another book question: Did the military have a usable two-seater jet, like a Harrier Jump Jet, in 2012? I've found that the Harrier had a two-seat version for training.

The scenario is that the government needs to pick an important guy up who is on a beach in Baja, and get him someplace in a hurry.

Within the bounds of believability?
__________________

__________________
Al
TromboneAl is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-11-2015, 11:42 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Another book question: Did the military have a usable two-seater jet, like a Harrier Jump Jet, in 2012? I've found that the Harrier had a two-seat version for training.

The scenario is that the government needs to pick an important guy up who is on a beach in Baja, and get him someplace in a hurry.

Within the bounds of believability?
Absolutely. The Harrier has been in service with the US military (Marines) since the 1970's.
__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 12:04 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,430
Joby S2 | Joby Aviation


__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 01:32 PM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 73
Interesting photo! Pick up someone on a beach? Helicopter would be better, or maybe a V-22 Osprey.

Believe that a Harrier's jet blast would create a big mess of FOD; maybe would end up crashing on the beach. Landing pads typically need special concrete or airfield matting that resists heat.
__________________
ampeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 01:36 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 3,244
Al, can't answer your Harrier question about two seats (though if the mission were that important, I'm guessing a trainer could be found.) I am not an expert at all, but I wonder about using a Harrier on a beach. Kicking up all that sand might be destructive to the engines. Just a thought. I have no reference, so YMMV.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 02:54 PM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 73
I remember driving past a Harrier that was practicing VTOL and thought that was interesting. Would normally see them doing short take-offs on the runway.

THEN I saw a YouTube video of a Harrier engine failure during one of these VTOL! That aircraft does an excellent impression of a rock!
__________________
ampeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 03:01 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampeep View Post
THEN I saw a YouTube video of a Harrier engine failure during one of these VTOL! That aircraft does an excellent impression of a rock!
It hung in the sky in much the same way as bricks don't.

(With thanks to Douglas Adams)
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 03:20 PM   #8
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 662
The two-seat Harrier's (TAV-8B) are based in Cherry Point, NC. They usually roll out on a short take-off to save fuel. Performing both a vertical landing and vertical take-off on a paved road or parking lot near the beach would use a lot of fuel. I know the single seat AV-8B has air-to-air refueling capability but I don't know if the TAV-8B has it.

As an alternative, there are V-22 Osprey's based at Kirtland AFB, NM. The VIP could be transferred to a two-seat supersonic fighter jet waiting at an airport/base near the border, if needed. The V-22 beach landing and take-off would look like this:
__________________
MBSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 08:08 PM   #9
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampeep View Post
Interesting photo! Pick up someone on a beach? Helicopter would be better, or maybe a V-22 Osprey.

Believe that a Harrier's jet blast would create a big mess of FOD; maybe would end up crashing on the beach. Landing pads typically need special concrete or airfield matting that resists heat.
For the story a V-22 is probably a better solution but I think the Abams tank had a turbine engine fitted with some type of centrifugal filter to filter out the sand. Perhaps a Harrier could be fitting with something similar?

Hey, this is fiction anyway....
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:18 AM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,199
Okay, thanks. I think I'll move it onto a grass field next to the beach. The idea is that they've got to get this guy from the beach in Baja to someplace else (mid USA) ASAP.

Could pilot can't just land, hop out, greet the guy, and have him hop in, or would they need a support crew (that could arrive in a copter)?
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 08:04 AM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Okay, thanks. I think I'll move it onto a grass field next to the beach. The idea is that they've got to get this guy from the beach in Baja to someplace else (mid USA) ASAP.

Could pilot can't just land, hop out, greet the guy, and have him hop in, or would they need a support crew (that could arrive in a copter)?
A support crew would not be needed at the pickup site for either the Harrier or V-22. Helicopters would just slow down the mission. Aerial refueling may be needed depending on the total flying time.

For the V-22, the rear cargo door could be lowered, the VIP boards, and a crew member closes the door and helps the VIP get strapped in as the pilot takes off.

If you're sending the Harrier, the cockpit sits about 8 feet off the ground so getting in without the support crew looks more like this copyrighted picture and this picture. These pictures also reveal the lack of an aerial refueling probe on the left side of the two-seat Harrier trainer that is present on the single seat combat Harrier.
__________________
MBSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 10:06 AM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 322
I don't think any of those options are going to work on a beach. It was not a lot of fun for the person being recovered but the Fulton surface-to-air recovery system would be much quicker anyway.


Fulton surface-to-air recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
"Time wounds all heels...." - Groucho Marx
LRDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 10:08 AM   #13
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
For the story a V-22 is probably a better solution but I think the Abams tank had a turbine engine fitted with some type of centrifugal filter to filter out the sand. Perhaps a Harrier could be fitting with something similar?

Hey, this is fiction anyway....
You can't filter in front of the fan of a gas turbine without messing up the engine performance.
__________________
"Time wounds all heels...." - Groucho Marx
LRDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 11:11 AM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGamecock View Post

If you're sending the Harrier, the cockpit sits about 8 feet off the ground so getting in without the support crew looks more like this copyrighted picture and this picture. These pictures also reveal the lack of an aerial refueling probe on the left side of the two-seat Harrier trainer that is present on the single seat combat Harrier.
Hmmmmm..... maybe give the guy getting picked up a Little Giant ladder?
__________________
ampeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 03:53 PM   #15
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRDave View Post
I don't think any of those options are going to work on a beach. It was not a lot of fun for the person being recovered but the Fulton surface-to-air recovery system would be much quicker anyway.
For the book that sounds like the most exciting way to do it. I had to laugh at this paragraph in the wiki article:

Quote:
Fulton first used instrumented dummies as he prepared for a live pickup. He next used a pig, as pigs have nervous systems close to humans. Lifted off the ground, the pig began to spin as it flew through the air at 125 mph (200 km/h). It arrived on board uninjured but in a disoriented state. Once it recovered, it attacked the crew.
I bet that was one PO'd pig!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRDave View Post
You can't filter in front of the fan of a gas turbine without messing up the engine performance.
Oh well, just a thought.
__________________

__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Add two more to the Class of 2012 REWahoo Other topics 7 06-09-2012 09:26 PM
Crossing the English Channel by personal jet Nords Other topics 12 09-30-2008 11:13 AM
The New Jet Set newellcr Life after FIRE 1 08-24-2006 10:14 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:42 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.