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Old 06-01-2019, 08:04 AM   #41
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May be possible that intelligent life of the UFO kind exists around us but we just can't perceive them.

I saw this program saying that humans can only perceive things in three dimensions, but in String Theory there are about 11 dimensions. Maybe when we do encounter UFOs they know how to jump in and out of our dimensions but we don't know how to get to their dimension. The comparison given was that of a goldfish in a shallow pond. The goldfish could happily swim about in the pond not knowing there is life beyond because they can't perceive anything else. But other "creatures" could get in and out of the pond.

I believe a UFO conspiracy theory is that Roswell was a crash of an alien being with the being surviving and much of the aircrafts created by the government later on was based off of information obtained from Roswell. A little space alien probably gave "youtube" videos to the government on how to create a spaceship before there was youtube .
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:30 AM   #42
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Statistically speaking it’s almost a certainty that intelligent life exists elsewhere.
Because there seems to be a shortage of it here?
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:26 AM   #43
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I hope they are tasty and low in calories.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:27 AM   #44
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I hope they are tasty and low in calories.
I hope WE are not tasty and low in calories to them
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:39 AM   #45
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If we multiply the number of galaxies in the observable universe (as high as 2 trillion) by the number of stars in a galaxy (200 billion), it is said that the number of stars is higher than the number of grains of sand on Earth.
Yes, this is almost certainly true (based on best estimates and observations), and it's true by a wide margin. The number of stars in the observable universe is on the order of 10^22 (or more), and the number of grains of sand on Earth (in all deserts, beaches, etc.) is on the order of 10^18. So there are at least 10,000 times more stars out there than all the grains of sand on Earth. Almost beyond comprehension.

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So, it is not conceivable that only Earth has lifeforms. But how the heck can anyone travel faster than the speed of light to get here?
They couldn't. But even extremely advanced civilizations would have enormous difficulty simply getting their ships to go fast enough to travel the unimaginably vast distances between stars. Traveling just to our nearest star, barely 4 light years away, would take the fastest vehicle ever created—the Voyager probe, at 38,600 MPH—nearly 70,000 years. Imagine some very, very smart and tech-savvy aliens who could improve on that by 100 fold, so their ships could safely transport living beings at 4 million MPH (i.e. able to circumnavigate the entire Earth 160 times per hour!). Even at that incredible speed, it would still take them over 670 years just to reach their nearest stars. I think most people who believe we've been visited by aliens in flying saucers don't have any concept of the colossal, gargantuan immensity of space and the vast distances between stars.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:19 PM   #46
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Yes, this is almost certainly true (based on best estimates and observations), and it's true by a wide margin. The number of stars in the observable universe is on the order of 10^22 (or more), and the number of grains of sand on Earth (in all deserts, beaches, etc.) is on the order of 10^18. So there are at least 10,000 times more stars out there than all the grains of sand on Earth. Almost beyond comprehension.



They couldn't. But even extremely advanced civilizations would have enormous difficulty simply getting their ships to go fast enough to travel the unimaginably vast distances between stars. Traveling just to our nearest star, barely 4 light years away, would take the fastest vehicle ever created—the Voyager probe, at 38,600 MPH—nearly 70,000 years. Imagine some very, very smart and tech-savvy aliens who could improve on that by 100 fold, so their ships could safely transport living beings at 4 million MPH (i.e. able to circumnavigate the entire Earth 160 times per hour!). Even at that incredible speed, it would still take them over 670 years just to reach their nearest stars. I think most people who believe we've been visited by aliens in flying saucers don't have any concept of the colossal, gargantuan immensity of space and the vast distances between stars.
But, if they are able to get to speeds that are a significant portion of the speed of light then relativistic time effects come into play and the elapsed time in the spaceship is significantly reduced.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:46 PM   #47
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But, if they are able to get to speeds that are a significant portion of the speed of light then relativistic time effects come into play and the elapsed time in the spaceship is significantly reduced.
True, but the speeds would have to be quite close to light speed in order for substantial relativistic effects to kick in. And therein lies the rub. The engineering challenges would be monumental, to say the least. First, create a space craft that can generate and deploy the massive amounts of energy required for long enough to reach, say, 90% of light speed, and then figure out a way to prevent the ship from being obliterated due to countless collisions with tiny bits of interstellar dust and debris, each carrying hundreds or thousands of megajoules of energy due to relativistic effects. For example, at 80% of light speed, a microscopic dust particle weighing only 40 micrograms would release as much energy upon impact as the thermal explosion of half a barrel of crude oil.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:52 PM   #48
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I hope WE are not tasty and low in calories to them
In case any are monitoring this transmission:

I, personally, am full of bad cholesterol and recommend a much leaner cut for dinner.
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #49
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True, but the speeds would have to be quite close to light speed in order for substantial relativistic effects to kick in. And therein lies the rub. The engineering challenges would be monumental, to say the least. First, create a space craft that can generate and deploy the massive amounts of energy required for long enough to reach, say, 90% of light speed, and then figure out a way to prevent the ship from being obliterated due to countless collisions with tiny bits of interstellar dust and debris, each carrying hundreds or thousands of megajoules of energy due to relativistic effects. For example, at 80% of light speed, a microscopic dust particle weighing only 40 micrograms would release as much energy upon impact as the thermal explosion of half a barrel of crude oil.
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:20 PM   #50
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I bet the GravitySucks flying machine could get here really fast from anywhere in the universe.
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:14 PM   #51
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True, but the speeds would have to be quite close to light speed in order for substantial relativistic effects to kick in. And therein lies the rub. The engineering challenges would be monumental, to say the least. First, create a space craft that can generate and deploy the massive amounts of energy required for long enough to reach, say, 90% of light speed, and then figure out a way to prevent the ship from being obliterated due to countless collisions with tiny bits of interstellar dust and debris, each carrying hundreds or thousands of megajoules of energy due to relativistic effects. For example, at 80% of light speed, a microscopic dust particle weighing only 40 micrograms would release as much energy upon impact as the thermal explosion of half a barrel of crude oil.
Perhaps those tiny bits of interstellar dust and debris ARE the fuel that propels the spacecraft - sort of an interstellar ramjet. Obviously we don't presently have the engineering know how for such a thing but unless the physical laws of the universe prevent it from happening I would think that a sufficiently advanced civilization would figure out a way to do it (travel at close to light speeds that is)
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:42 PM   #52
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I attended a lecture several years ago by Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. He made a great point about UFOs. He said that there are thousands of professional and amateur astronomers around the word, and these folks spend a lot of time looking up at the sky. They are generally more knowledgeable than the average citizen with respect to knowing what they are looking at in the sky.

These folks are rarely, if ever, are the ones reporting UFOs.

Just because we don't know what we are looking at does not automatically mean we are looking at alien spaceships visiting Earth.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:52 PM   #53
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I saw what I thought was a UFO when I was a kid. I was at a backyard party and watched two brilliant lights move slowly across the sky. They almost showed a disc. Then they stopped completely. side by side. One began to pulse brighter and dimmer - I thought it was probably rotating. Then they slowly faded and "went out," perhaps moving directly away.

This was probably around 1970.

What caught my attention was the slow speed, slower than that of an aircraft, and the fact the lights stopped dead in the sky. But I was just a kid, there was probably some piece of technology that would do that.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:54 PM   #54
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I hope WE are not tasty and low in calories to them
It's a cookbook!

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Old 06-01-2019, 05:01 PM   #55
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Unidentified - yes, ET - in this case, probably not.
That's the key: Unidentified doesn't prove anything. A favorite argument of Aliens-are-here is to turn the proof requirement around: "Well, if it's not an alien spacecraft, then what is it?!" But that's a fallacious "proof."

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Actually, intelligent/advanced life in other places is statistically improbable. Folks do not realize how rare and fragile the chemistry actually is in terms of temperature ranges, pressure ranges, radiation ranges, etc. Physicists usually don't know enough about biochemistry to make good predictions about what is needed. Plus it only takes a single catastrophic event to wipe out all life. And what is needed includes a long relatively stable environment (but not completely stable) for evolution to do its magic. Some relatively mild stress can help evolution.

I'll concede that bacteria-like and slime-mold life could be elsewhere in the universe. But at this point in my life, I don't believe there are other sentient beings in our galaxy and perhaps not elsewhere in the universe.
With my limited knowledge of chemistry, biology, and how stars and planets form, I am certain microscopic life is somewhat prevalent, maybe even on some moons in our solar system. But complex life requires a lot of coincidences that our planet went through, not least being our relatively large Moon. I also think complex life is extremely rare, to say the least.

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I attended a lecture several years ago by Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. He made a great point about UFOs. He said that there are thousands of professional and amateur astronomers around the word, and these folks spend a lot of time looking up at the sky. They are generally more knowledgeable than the average citizen with respect to knowing what they are looking at in the sky.
I also went to one of his lectures, and a questioner asked him to address how "so many" sincere and sane people have seen and believe in Aliens visiting us. He gave a great, polite, and succinct answer: [paraphrasing, here] "Show me an alien, not vague photos of....something." He added that just because someone sincerely believes in something is not proof.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:13 PM   #56
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In case any are monitoring this transmission:

I, personally, am full of bad cholesterol and recommend a much leaner cut for dinner.

No exercise and eating lots of junk food may prove beneficial after all.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:34 PM   #57
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With my limited knowledge of chemistry, biology, and how stars and planets form, I am certain microscopic life is somewhat prevalent, maybe even on some moons in our solar system. But complex life requires a lot of coincidences that our planet went through, not least being our relatively large Moon. I also think complex life is extremely rare, to say the least.

Coincidences. [emoji4][emoji4]. Yeah, right.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:35 PM   #58
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The argument is often presented that a very unique set of circumstances resulted in semi intelligent life on earth (lets not be presumptuous now) so that the chances of such a unique set repeating somewhere else in the universe are slim to none. The only thought I can offer to that argument is that if the laws of physics allowed such a thing to happen once here on earth, then the same laws would forbid such a thing from NOT happening again somewhere else in the universe given that there are trillions (or more) of possible trials.
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UFO's who are they ?
Old 06-01-2019, 05:47 PM   #59
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UFO's who are they ?

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Everything you know is wrong!!!




Uh, Clem.


I read a book by that title ... Everything you know is Wrong, by Lloyd Pye. The book argues that we, humans, are the aliens or descended from the aliens. . Annunaki Gods. And the Neanderthal Man was the indigenous species .. or what some people are calling today as Big Foot or Sasquash. He argues that our body is too fragile to survive in the earth environment..and that is why we wear clothing, we build houses, etc. we cannot survive naked and exposed to the elements compared to the rest of the animal kingdom. Now bigfoot who walks upright can survive this earth environment without clothing or much protection, he says, because they were the indigenous neanderthal man.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:37 PM   #60
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True, but the speeds would have to be quite close to light speed in order for substantial relativistic effects to kick in. And therein lies the rub. The engineering challenges would be monumental, to say the least. First, create a space craft that can generate and deploy the massive amounts of energy required for long enough to reach, say, 90% of light speed, and then figure out a way to prevent the ship from being obliterated due to countless collisions with tiny bits of interstellar dust and debris, each carrying hundreds or thousands of megajoules of energy due to relativistic effects. For example, at 80% of light speed, a microscopic dust particle weighing only 40 micrograms would release as much energy upon impact as the thermal explosion of half a barrel of crude oil.
And, for UFO sightings to exist, you have to also explain that a civilization which can do all these --amazing-- things cannot figure out how to avoid detection by humans. Or that, with all the tools available to study our society, they only make contact with people in rural locations. Asimov's "The Rocketing Dutchmen" article follows this line well.
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Actually, intelligent/advanced life in other places is statistically improbable. Folks do not realize how rare and fragile the chemistry actually is in terms of temperature ranges, pressure ranges, radiation ranges, etc. Physicists usually don't know enough about biochemistry to make good predictions about what is needed. Plus it only takes a single catastrophic event to wipe out all life. And what is needed includes a long relatively stable environment (but not completely stable) for evolution to do its magic. Some relatively mild stress can help evolution.

I'll concede that bacteria-like and slime-mold life could be elsewhere in the universe. But at this point in my life, I don't believe there are other sentient beings in our galaxy and perhaps not elsewhere in the universe.
There's an interesting related wrinkle that I happened upon recently: The mystery of mitochondria. Nobody is quite sure how mitochondria came to be in cells, but it appears that they evolved as a separate life form and somehow, improbably, got incorporated into at least one other organism. They exist this way to this date--a reason that their DNA is totally independent from the rest of the DNA in every complex organism on earth. Without mitochondria, life could exist, but it would be very, very simple. It was that way on earth for 2 billion years, and life stayed very simple--single very very small cells. And they could not get bigger or more complex. But, at that point, and by a mechanism not yet explained (and which apparently only occurred one time in earth's history, based on the existing evidence in every cell), two independent single celled organisms began to exist within a single cell membrane in a mutually beneficial way (perhaps as one was eating the other). What would eventually become the mitochondria provided a tremendous increase in the amount of energy available to the host cell. And at that point, living organisms could suddenly get to be complex and over 10,000 times as large. There was absolutely nothing inevitable about this--life on earth could easily have continued at a very simple level indefinitely.

The fact that both organisms survived, even once, and replicated within each other, was incredibly improbable.

An (overly?) "accessible" version of the story is in this Radiolab podcast:
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