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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-07-2007, 09:01 PM   #41
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

Youbet...

It was the union that came down here with the goal of organizing them.... there was NOT an outcry from the group..

They did an excellent job of brow beating the companies and the owners of the buidings as they threatened to strike in other cities if they 'objected'...

The vote was open, which leads to people voting for the union... it would not have passed if it was closed..

Almost all the people who were on the picket lines were from outside the city... ALL, repeat ALL the people that were arrested were employed by the union.. they were not even workers...

The increase I was saying is based on the belief that the minimum wage will increase.. I believe there is a clause that they must get at least $1 over minimum... but had not heard the final outcome because the guy I was getting the info quit...
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-07-2007, 11:25 PM   #42
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Youbet...

It was the union that came down here with the goal of organizing them.... there was NOT an outcry from the group..

They did an excellent job of brow beating the companies and the owners of the buidings as they threatened to strike in other cities if they 'objected'...

The vote was open, which leads to people voting for the union... it would not have passed if it was closed..

Almost all the people who were on the picket lines were from outside the city... ALL, repeat ALL the people that were arrested were employed by the union.. they were not even workers...

The increase I was saying is based on the belief that the minimum wage will increase.. I believe there is a clause that they must get at least $1 over minimum... but had not heard the final outcome because the guy I was getting the info quit...
The tactics used by the SEIU were typical including bringing in supporters and union employees from outside the area, threatening to strike in other municipalities and successfully soliciting Democratic Party political support. This is what usually happens. What doesn't usually happen is the union succeeding in being certified by the NLRB and winning it's first strike big time.

Management and owners had to have their collective heads up their arses for this to happen. Or, they were treating employees so poorly that it was a walk in the park for the SEIU folks to get them all fired up.

I'm not defending the union. I'm criticizing owners/managers. Isn't it amazing how arrogance can turn on inself?

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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 12:47 AM   #43
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
The tactics used by the SEIU were typical including bringing in supporters and union employees from outside the area, threatening to strike in other municipalities and successfully soliciting Democratic Party political support. This is what usually happens. What doesn't usually happen is the union succeeding in being certified by the NLRB and winning it's first strike big time.

Management and owners had to have their collective heads up their arses for this to happen. Or, they were treating employees so poorly that it was a walk in the park for the SEIU folks to get them all fired up.

I'm not defending the union. I'm criticizing owners/managers. Isn't it amazing how arrogance can turn on inself?

I work for one of those managers.... the SEIU picked them off one at a time.. and also used the people 'up north' against us... we kept saying NOT to sign the crap they wanted, but the people in NY are so used to unions they did sign... yes, it was the owners managers that played it wrong and got hosed...

I think the 'winner' (besides the union itself) is the 5th place cleaning company... they refused to get on board and now stand to win more contracts going forward... we will see how things go..
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 01:27 AM   #44
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

My only real experience with unions was when I worked in the coal mines. At various times I worked on both sides -- management and union. We were mining a seam that was over 500 feet below the surface. There were lots of large multi-ton machines (shuttle cars, tractors, continuous miners, . . .)operating off of 440 volts. Cables snapping and bouncing all over the place. Roof bolting operations were going on constantly to keep the top from falling on us. The coal leaks methane gas, so you have to regularly inspect the face and make sure you have enough air flowing to disapate it. If you cut a corner, you can cause a terrible (even deadly) accident.

I can tell you that I would not want to work down there without a union. The company knew how much it cost to shut down and repair a frayed cable, how much it cost for an extra roof bolt, how much it cost to run blower and exhaust ductwork, . . . and how much it cost to burry a dead miner. They were definately not above making a financial tradeoff among any of those items. Union inspectors kept things honest and safe.

The unions elected their officers from among their ranks. These guys were often not among the best and brightest. A lot of the things they complained about and fought for were misguided. And the management-labor relationship was always strained and far from ideal. But the union was important to safety.

Some of the stories I hear people tell about union experiences have taken on the urban myth status. It's interesting when you hear the same story from people in 3 different states who don't know each other all claiming to know the guy this happened to. And does anyone ever wonder what dunderhead in management was responsible for negotiating the contract with the unions that allowed them to have one job classification for nose picker and a second classification for nose blower? The stories always indicate that the union is at fault for this, but someone from management -- in fact a management team -- signed off on that contract.

Unions are flawed. Management is worse.
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 07:32 AM   #45
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

Unions

Interesting situation with them and public education.

I have experience with unions in NJ. Look they have kept things honest. There now is a huge mess with the Teacher pension system finances. Funny though the unions were screaming 10 years ago about the trouble that was beginning when politicians stopped funding the pension during lean budget times. well it has come back to bite NJ in the arse today.

The union made it so I have a fair pension with bennies, which is NOT extravigant.

We hear how the unions have destroyed the learning process in the schools, sorry that is bull $hit.

Come down here to North carolina, there are laws against collective bargaining, There are NO UNIONS in the schools in North carolina. They pay teachers some of the lowest salaries in the country and some of the lowest scores come from this state.

People must stop bashing the unions, especially down here, I love it I hear how the unions are destroying public education from people down here and I love to tell them there are none! No union rep in the building. Nothing. The state of NC runs the show!
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 10:38 AM   #46
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888

People must stop bashing the unions,
Wow, that is open minded! Hmmm, you must like unions, so no one else should say anything negative about them? OK, you convinced me, let's re-name this thread "Life through Rose Colored Glasses, but only *YOUR* Rose Colored Glasses - Alternate Views not Welcome". And let's go to a one-party political system while we're at it - no need for those pesky debates. [/satire]

Look a few posts up, squeeee discussed some benefits of unions were he worked.

I find squeeee's comments interesting. I never worked in a coal mine, but when I saw the media coverage of the latest coal mine disaster, it sure looked to me that the company could have added a lot of safety for a small marginal cost. IIRC, that mine was not all that deep (150 feet?), but it was a few miles long. It looked like a few more little safety areas, stocked with a few more O2 canisters would have done a lot. Also, if the few air shafts they had were made big enough to pass a man through (or at least an O2 canister), that would help. And, didn't it take something like 2 days to get heavy equipment to the site? Keeping heavy equipment within, say 4 hours of a site would certainly help.

Yes, all that would add cost, but %-wise I can't imagine it would be much. But, apparently it is more than amortizing the cost of a few dead miners (man, that is a harsh thing even to type). I doubt people would be too upset at paying, say 1% more for their electricity if they *knew* it was going towards safer working conditions for miners. But w/o that info, sure, people want electricity at the lowest possible rate.

I'm all for free markets, but they are not perfect. Something fell apart here, whether it was the unions not protecting their workers, lax govt regulations, or a lack of a free market so that mines with better safety attracted more workers.

-ERD50




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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 12:18 PM   #47
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Yes, all that would add cost, but %-wise I can't imagine it would be much. But, apparently it is more than amortizing the cost of a few dead miners (man, that is a harsh thing even to type).
Yeah, but when you have to bribe hire & train their replacements-- now you're talking real money.

Same logic as the military.
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 02:46 PM   #48
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

And another story

http://www.forbes.com/home/wallstree...0404union.html
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!
Old 04-08-2007, 03:18 PM   #49
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Re: Union Venting - Grrrr!!!

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Some of the stories I hear people tell about union experiences have taken on the urban myth status.
Absolutely!

Management/Labor relations involves achieving reasonable balance over time to be successful. Generally this balance will not remain in steady state too long or be achieved without the pendelum swinging widely from extreme to extreme...... almost like national politics. So there are always plentiful anecdotal examples of excessive behavior by either management/owners or unions. And plentiful exaggerations as well!

Without a means for small scrimages to occur and shifts to take place over time, we'd wind up with extreme concentration of wealth and capital followed by eventual revolution.







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