United Airlines Roughed Up Passenger to Give Up His Seat

[MildlyEccentric]

There are probably about 100 people a day that are involuntarily bumped off of a flight in the U.S. The differences in this case were they first let him have a seat and board the plane, second he refused to get off the plane when asked and finally his refusal ended so dramatically and was posted to social media. Involuntary bumping (where no one volunteers to get off) is a low percentage, but happens about 40,000 times a year.

 

[RunningBum]

There are probably about 100 people a day that are involuntarily bumped off of a flight in the U.S. The differences in this case were they first let him have a seat and board the plane, second he refused to get off the plane when asked and finally his refusal ended so dramatically and was posted to social media. Involuntary bumping (where no one volunteers to get off) is a low percentage, but happens about 40,000 times a year.

Source?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

other objectors thought exactly this way. They broke the rules on purpose, didn't put up any resistance, and their heroism got the rules changed. (Sane) People realized the insanity of the rules based on these objections.

The French resistance and founding fathers didn't put up any resistance? Ghandi's first act of civil disobedience was getting himself forcibly thrown off a train for not following segregation laws.

 

[Aerides]

Nate Silver put out this chart yesterday:

 

[Midpack]

Source?

If you have better data, you have Google right?

It's been linked on the thread already, but here's one of many sources "Airlines are allowed to oversell flights, and they frequently do, because they assume that some passengers won't show up. U.S. airlines bumped 40,000 passengers last year, not counting those who volunteered to give up their seats."

Airlines often oversell flights, end up bumping passengers - ABC News

And here you'll see there were 40,529 passengers involuntarily denied boarding, and 434,425 voluntarily - just US airlines.

But this guy just had to be different...and it's United Airlines fault for not guessing that.

https://www.transportation.gov/site...viation-consumer-protection/2017MarchATCR.pdf

What a sad thread...

 

[Keim]

... After all, you can have the police come remove someone who is failing to leave your home or car, right?

Your analogy is lacking. More apt would be if I were renting someone space in my car or home-which is a significantly more complex issue.

 

[bUU]

More apt would be if I were renting someone space in my car or home-which is a significantly more complex issue.

Actually, more apt would be someone sitting in a barber chair in my salon. You don't lease a seat on an airplane. You're a service customer. And if I say leave my salon, then you should leave. If you feel I've breached our agreement, then have a professional process server serve me with a summons to answer a lawsuit you file against me in court.

 

[easysurfer]

One man's 'violating federal law' is another man's 'sticking up for my rights' or perhaps a form of protest. You're right, it's kinda funny. Kinda...

+1.

Some folks may see what happened as "That guy was an instigator, toss the bum out." Or other may see as "My gosh, he's someone's grandfather/father, he didn't deserve that."

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Admittedly I have only read a handful of comments about this "newz story" but man...250+ comments?!? I am glad most threads don't go this long; it wears me out just thinking about trying to read 'em all.

 

[easysurfer]

Hindsight is 20/20 but three ways such an incident could have been avoided, IMO:

1) Offer a bigger deal than $800, someone would have agreed eventually

2) Do the negotiating before everyone has boarded

3) If after everyone has boarded, use restraints on the passenger before removing (of course, would that have violated any laws?)

Had the guy been restrained and didn't get his lip busted and knocked out, this would have been just a "oh, a flyer got removed from a plane...end of story." But now... well, the news story of the day.

 

[MildlyEccentric]

Source?

I got my original number from an article. Some others have replied with similar numbers, but the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics does have detailed information on the topic. Here's a link to their data for 2016.

 

[RunningBum]

If you have better data, you have Google right?

It's been linked on the thread already, but here's one of many sources "Airlines are allowed to oversell flights, and they frequently do, because they assume that some passengers won't show up. U.S. airlines bumped 40,000 passengers last year, not counting those who volunteered to give up their seats."

Airlines often oversell flights, end up bumping passengers - ABC News

And here you'll see there were 40,529 passengers involuntarily denied boarding, and 434,425 voluntarily - just US airlines.

But this guy just had to be different...and it's United Airlines fault for not guessing that.

https://www.transportation.gov/site...viation-consumer-protection/2017MarchATCR.pdf

What a sad thread...

OK, big thread, and I missed it. But if someone throws out a number, I have a right to ask where they got that number from, since they presumably have a source for it. It's not on me to have to go searching for that. If they list a source and I don't believe it, then it's up to me to look.

Geez. Sad thread indeed.

I wonder how many of those were actually sitting on the plane and were pulled off.

 

[bUU]

Every airline will call the police when a passenger refuses crew instructions.

Delta Air Lines has confirmed that a woman was forcibly removed from a flight at Detroit Metropolitan Airport after failing to comply with proper boarding procedures.

Woman dragged off Delta flight by police after reportedly failing to check in at gate

 

[RunningBum]

I got my original number from an article. Some others have replied with similar numbers, but the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics does have detailed information on the topic. Here's a link to their data for 2016.

Thank you.

 

[bUU]

Pretty hard to go along with your analogy

Not at all. Consequences is to Consequences as Lawbreaker is to Lawbreaker.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Enough with the off-target over-exhortation.

YES SIR !!! Again, I have a sneaky suspicion that you are a person used to giving orders, likely wearing a uniform of some sort.

This passenger wasn't standing on principle.

How do you know ? Maybe the principle that the air travel people shouldn't treat the public like cattle ?

 

[bUU]

YES SIR !!! Again, I have a sneaky suspicion that you are a person used to giving orders, likely wearing a uniform of some sort.

And I suppose next you're going to rant about my mother wearing Army boots.

How do you know ?

Asked and answered. For the third time now: Gandhi went to jail, peacefully. He didn't claim exemption from the consequences of his actions. He didn't demonize those who took him into custody nor the guards who kept him in custody. He invited the consequences he incurred because he felt it would give him an opportunity to draw attention to what he felt was injustice.

 

[Midpack]

And this just in from multiple sources, maybe he's not quite Rosa Parks or Ghandi? Let's hear from everyone who jumped to his defense early on, with $M lawsuits and boycotts, without knowing the regs or how the whole situation developed.

The man dragged from a full United Express flight by airport security officers in Chicago is a Kentucky physician who was convicted more than a decade ago of felony charges involving his prescribing of drugs.

His legal troubles started in 2003, when his medical license was suspended after an undercover sting operation at a Louisville motel for allegedly writing fraudulent prescriptions.

According to the documents, the licensing board had learned that Dao had become sexually interested in a patient and hired the patient as his office manager. That man later said he quit his job because Dao “pursued him aggressively” and arranged to provide him with prescription drugs in exchange for sex.

Dao was ultimately convicted in late 2004 of several counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit and was placed on five years of supervised probation and surrendered his medical license.

His longtime effort to get his license back was finally successful in 2015, when the licensing board allowed him to practice medicine again.

Passenger dragged from United flight identified as doctor with criminal record – Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

 

[redduck]

<snip>>
Second, what you're saying would be as if someone runs out of the Best Buy with a $200 television under his arm that he hadn't paid for and when the police try to take it from him he says no. He resists, he refuses. Effectively, you're saying that the police should let him steal it with impunity.

Pretty hard to go along with your analogy:

In your scenario, the guy runs out of the store with a television that he hasn't paid for. But in the airplane situation, the guy has already paid for his seat, he has the paper work to prove it, the airline has the paperwork to prove it and he's already used the seat. But, then the airline wants to take it away from him because an executive at the store decided they now want that seat for one of their employees. And, when he doesn't want to give up the seat that he paid for, the airline calls the police to take the seat back. So, it's not really as if someone runs out of Best Buy with a $200 television that he hadn't paid for.

 

[travelover]

And I suppose next you're going to rant about my mother wearing Army boots. ...........

I think you are using this thread to troll for conflict.

 

[Texas Proud]

[disclaimer: even though DW and I live close to Newark Airport, a major United hub, we will not fly United for reasons unrelated to this thread]

Imagine an alternate universe where the plane just took off, and then those 4 United employees showed up. They wouldn't make the plane return. Similarly, if the plane had gotten to the taxi area, they would not have called the plane back.
Once all the passengers were boarded, it is simply not right that they eject 4 passengers for those late-arriving employees. No different than if I arrive late for a flight - it's my loss. UA may have been legally in the right, but their arrogance precipitated everything that ensued.
I don't condone the doctor's actions, but I hold UA predominantly culpable here, bare bones minimum on an ethical level.

According to someone on one of the cable shows the employees are considered 'must fly' (not sure I used the correct words)... so as long as it had not taken off they had to put them on board....

 

[bUU]

I think you are using this thread to troll for conflict.

Check my posting history. My comments here are 100% consistent with my well-established moral principles expressed in literally dozens of other threads.

Pretty hard to go along with your analogy

Not at all. Consequences is to Consequences as Lawbreaker is to Lawbreaker.

 

[rodi]

Nate Silver put out this chart yesterday:

It shows that perception and PR are done better at other airlines. Southwest and Jetblue have pretty high consumer approval ratings. Yet their involuntary bump rates are higher than United/Delta/AA, etc...

I don't think it helped that the CEO tweeted about the "re-accommodation". That made me cringe outright. Literally yanking a passenger out of his seat, banging his head on the arm-rest in the process, is now called "re-accommodation" Double speak at it's best. The CEO did not win any support (except perhaps from bUU) with that tweet.

I'm not claiming the passenger was in the right. But I think UA handled this horribly. And the aviation security officer should be required to go through training on how to safely remove passengers after he comes back from his suspension. I've watched both the videos that are out there and I'm surprised the man doesn't have more damage to his face when he's yanked into the armrest.

As for the amount legally required... As far as I can see that is the minimum they must pay for INvoluntary bumped passengers... 4x ticket price, capped at $1350. I did not read any prohibition for paying more in the interest of customer relations and good PR. In this case - hindsight being what it is - they would have saved a big bundle by upping the offer.

 

[FIREmenow]

And this just in from multiple sources, maybe he's not quite Rosa Parks or Ghandi? Let's hear from everyone who jumped to his defense early on, without knowing the regs or how the whole situation developed.

Passenger dragged from United flight identified as doctor with criminal record – Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

If the law is black and white, and not grey, none of that matters.

 

[Silver]

I see this incident as being similar to college students doing a peaceful "sit-in" to oppose some policy/rule/principle. This physician's "protest" was against his own annoyance at being told to depart the plane.

The students paid their tuition and have a "right" to express their beliefs. This physician paid his ticket and had a "right" to express his beliefs. The students and this physician got what they deserved when legally told to leave the premises, and they refused; bloodied and dragged away. I'm blessed to live in a country that doesn't behead people because of their personal beliefs.

UA could have used a better approach, and probably will in the future. I hope UA doesn't give him a penny in compensation. My only sympathies go toward all the other passengers who were delayed.