Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2017, 08:33 PM   #101
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Fedup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 4,032
This guy is a nuisance to other people in my point of view. He caused a scene and delay to other customers.
Fedup is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-10-2017, 08:36 PM   #102
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South central PA
Posts: 3,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck_Club View Post
I think the doctor just got his early retirement pass.


I understand the doctor is 69 years old, so no early retirement. And he was knocked out in the struggle. It was horrible to watch the video. Resisting security makes no sense. Was he going to be separated from his wife? That's a really stupid thing to do. I think United would have had volunteers had it not been fully boarded already. That was their mistake. And I understand it was airport security, not Chicago PD. Chicago PD later took reports and issued a statement based on their interviews. They weren't there for the incident.

There maybe a lawsuit, but he won't likely win since he was violating federal law.
EastWest Gal is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 08:42 PM   #103
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,266
Something smells with this story. The bumps were to accommodate repositioning some United employees for the next day. There was another flight 3 1/2 hours later.... or it is a ~5 hour drive.

What I can't figure is if they were offering $80 each for 4 people why wouldn't people take it, rent a car and drive for 5 hours? Or better yet, why wouldn't United tell the employees to rent a car at company expense and drive?... its only 4 hours more than flying.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
pb4uski is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 08:45 PM   #104
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
easysurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,130
Was watching online a segment on a cable station asking will the passenger have a case for a lawsuit? Pretty much was a consensus, "Yep!". The show host pointed up, this really isn't a case of overbooking. Not as if there were too many customers but the airline wanted 4 more seats for the crew.

An analogy I can think if is as if you bought a ticket to go to a concert but folks at the venue needed a seat so security or a bouncer roughs you up and tosses you out after you don't agree to give up your seat for a price.
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
easysurfer is online now  
Old 04-10-2017, 08:50 PM   #105
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,266
That is an interesting angle... IF the flight was really NOT overbooked were it not for the 4 United employees then I'm not sure if United can hide behind the overbooked flight regulations so the justification for removing the passenger from the plane goes away and pls United clearly in the wrong.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
pb4uski is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 08:54 PM   #106
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
Rosa Parks was arrested for not giving up her seat, too. What is legal is not always what is fair. What she did was illegal at the time.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:02 PM   #107
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
redduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: yonder
Posts: 2,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
...They select the ones who paid the lowest fare and fly the least frequently. So if you fly the airline a lot and/or paid a higher fare you're least likely to get bumped.
Is this in the rule book or is it just a perk of flying first class?
__________________
When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich--philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau
redduck is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:05 PM   #108
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
Something smells with this story. The bumps were to accommodate repositioning some United employees for the next day. There was another flight 3 1/2 hours later.... or it is a ~5 hour drive.

What I can't figure is if they were offering $80 each for 4 people why wouldn't people take it, rent a car and drive for 5 hours? Or better yet, why wouldn't United tell the employees to rent a car at company expense and drive?... its only 4 hours more than flying.
Some people just don't think out of the box, or may not be up for a long drive.

Also, for the OPs who suggested that the crew drive to L'ville, perhaps the crew knew that United wouldn't reimburse them if they decided to drive.

--

A few years ago, due to weather delays en route, I and a few other passengers flying east from San Diego missed our connecting flight in Chicago (which was the last one that evening). We were flying Southwest and the connecting flight was also Southwest. Southworst would not delay their connecting flight 10 minutes for us, but that's another story.

I had befriended an oncology nurse on board who was a novice flier and freaked out by everything. I assured her that if we missed our connection, we'd get a rental car, drive the 3.5-4 hours to Detroit, pick up my car at the parking lot and then be on our way home. After checking with several rental car counters at O'Hare, the cheapest one-way rental to Detroit was something just shy of $400! By now it was nearing 11 pm and we were both getting tired. I asked the nurse if she might know someone in Chicago. Luckily, she then remembered that her well-to-do 27-year-old nephew lived in a million dollar condo in the heart of Chicago. She called him up, he drove over, took us home and said we'd have to find our own way back to the airport in the morning. So that's how I ended up sleeping in someone's swanky condo in Chicago that I'd never met before or since.

omni
omni550 is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:11 PM   #109
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
redduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: yonder
Posts: 2,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardsFan View Post
First, if you have your lawyer on speed dial, and he will take your call immediately, at around 5:40 pm ON A SUNDAY, well.... even for a Doctor, this sounds unusual.
Lots of things sound unusual (such as myself), but what point are you trying to make other than it sounds "unusual?"
__________________
When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich--philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau
redduck is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:13 PM   #110
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by easysurfer View Post
Was watching online a segment on a cable station asking will the passenger have a case for a lawsuit? Pretty much was a consensus, "Yep!". The show host pointed up, this really isn't a case of overbooking. Not as if there were too many customers but the airline wanted 4 more seats for the crew.

An analogy I can think if is as if you bought a ticket to go to a concert but folks at the venue needed a seat so security or a bouncer roughs you up and tosses you out after you don't agree to give up your seat for a price.
Yep, after you have already seated with anticipation of enjoying the concert. Evidently the crew came late - after everybody was already boarded and said they needed to get on the flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
tmm99 is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:18 PM   #111
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmm99 View Post
.... Evidently the crew came late - after everybody was already boarded and said they needed to get on the flight. ...
IF that is the case then the crew and United are bad actors and while I
can't condone what the doc did, at the same time we would never know about the crew and United's abuse of the system if he had complied.

If that is what happened and I was United's CEO then that crew would be spending some time looking for work... as would the gate agents that let them get away with it. I hate cheaters.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
pb4uski is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:22 PM   #112
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
IF that is the case then the crew and United are bad actors and while I
can't condone what the doc did, at the same time we would never know about the crew and United's abuse of the system if he had complied.

If that is what happened and I was United's CEO then that crew would be spending some time looking for work... as would the gate agents that let them get away with it. I hate cheaters.
+100
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:49 PM   #113
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
That's remarkably insulting and uncalled for. You owe me an apology.
I think not.
Hermit is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:50 PM   #114
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,171
I think United handled this poorly. They should have upped the offer till they had volunteers. Or they should not have boarded the flight with the overage.

I was involuntarily bumped once. They airline had switched planes - and the new plane had a different configuration than the one that had been scheduled... Everyone in my row and the row in front of me was bumped because our rows didn't exist on the new plane. Fortunately, my flight was early enough in the day - they gave me a first class seat on the next nonstop flight PLUS two r/t continental US tickets. Ironically, I was flying on a free ticket I'd received from being voluntarily bumped on a previous vacation - and we'd gotten hotel, meal vouchers, and upgrades on that bump.

Since then it seems like the offers to be voluntarily bumped have been getting crappier and crappier. The last time I saw a request for volunteers they were only offering $200 of airline credit.... That's not enough to make it worthwhile - especially on a $300-400 ticket.

The argument that this was not an overbooking - since the passengers were being bumped for employees, not ticketed passengers, is interesting.

One little nit with some of the discussion on this thread. I don't think it was Chicago PD that removed the passenger... it was Chicago Department of Aviation security officers.

FWIW - the officer who removed the passenger has been suspended.
https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/u...-ohare-airport
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
rodi is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:56 PM   #115
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,657
Quote:
The airlines offer was only 10% below the maximum they would spend for an involuntary bump. That explains why they did not go higher.
Which is to say that United was willing to call the police and escalate to possibly violent confrontation over $80.

Also, some reports were very clear that while the announcement was that passengers would be selected by computer, which was made to sound like they would be randomly selected, what actually happens is that the computer identifies the lowest fares paid, as the compensation owed is based on the fare paid.

Which is also something that I didn't know, when I do a good job of shopping for airfare, I don't just get a bargain set, I also get put at the top of this list for involuntary removal if they run out of seats.

Lastly, this was NOT an overbooking situation despite being reported that way. The flight was fully booked and fully loaded before 4 employees showed up demanding seats so they could work out of the destination city on Monday. They did not have bookings, nor tickets. The airline may have rules for removing passengers when it wants the seats for it's own employees, but they were deadhead employees, not overbooked passengers.
growing_older is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:58 PM   #116
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,111
What all those 'rules' do not anticipate is that a passenger may not have the real or imagined flexibility with their travel arrangements. Not everyone is traveling with a full deck. [Even I, when returning from a business trip, broke out in tears when my flight had to make a stop in Spokane en route to Portland from the east coast because of weather. Exhaustion played a big role in my emotional response.]

I think United made a series of bad decisions and the airline owes the passenger, and the passengers who observed the incident, apologies. Passengers need to be treated humanely. Pulling out the rule book doesn't excuse the agent's actions.

United should make no excuses, just say this is not who we are and we will try to do better the next time and will work with the passenger to address his situation..
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is online now  
Old 04-10-2017, 10:10 PM   #117
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,165
To me the idea of the Captain ordering someone off the airline should be reserved for someone who is a danger to other passengers. This idea that the airline can just randomly pick people to kick off is what is wrong and it seems to me to be a misuse of a law originally intended for other purposes. This airline is using it as a convenience for their over booking shenanigans.

But what do I know. I gave up anything to do with airports and flying a while back. I don't like being treated like a cow and I don't properly moo.
Hermit is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 11:31 PM   #118
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 401
Quote:
Lets be clear, it was NOT united employees who dragged this guy off the plane. It was airport POLICE. Put the blame for the rough handling where it belongs.
Yup. Reasonable cops would have gone back to the airline and said "this guy REALLY does not want to get off the plane, are you sure you want us to remove him at all costs ?" If they did and United say "go ahead", I suppose I can believe it, given the contempt that most airlines (and some big corporations, in general) have for their customers. But even so, it's hard to believe the UA employees involved could be bone stupid enough to have created this PR nightmare. I think it's more likely the cops were happy to rough someone up, because that's what the job is, for too many of them.
RustyShackleford is offline  
Old 04-10-2017, 11:54 PM   #119
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by euro View Post
UA called them in and told them to remove the passenger. The cops did not have discretion on whether to follow the order or not.
Wow, the wording of this is very telling. A corporation ORDERED the cops to physically coerce one of their customers. Yep.
RustyShackleford is offline  
Old 04-11-2017, 01:05 AM   #120
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
They can "involuntarily" deny you boarding anytime they want to, it's in the C of C, in fact they pay less for that then they do a voluntary bump.The guy can say "No" all he wants to and it means nothing.I've known people that boarded and got put off the plane for weight and balance issues.

The random thing,perhaps they bumped the last ones to check-in, I've heard of that happening too.


They had already boarded everyone. C of C doesn't have language that covers this incident.
tinlizzy is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
United/Continental airlines??? MovingtotheCove Travel Information 49 05-01-2013 10:39 AM
United Airlines or American Discount Codes brett Travel Information 5 06-17-2010 09:22 PM
United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise..... Cut-Throat FIRE and Money 87 05-15-2005 10:16 AM
United Airlines trying to dump pension obligation BristolBane Other topics 31 05-12-2005 11:44 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:34 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.