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Old 09-20-2007, 01:56 PM   #41
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Hmmm, is that what you get out of these statements I made?



I think you need reading glasses, brewer.

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I read you loud and clear, thank you very much. Bye-bye.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:04 PM   #42
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I read you loud and clear, thank you very much. Bye-bye.
So sorry, but I just realized that I missed this one on that last reply:
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post

Now, if he got TAZR'd for peaceably handing out pamphlets, or if the police beat down his door because he was holding a political discussion among friends, THAT would fit my idea of 'police state brutality', and I would fight that tooth and nail.

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I guess I'm too late to ask you how you interpret THAT as 'siding with the cops no matter what they did.'.

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Old 09-20-2007, 02:58 PM   #43
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Big richie, I bent as far as I can personally in my prior post.

Yours, OTOH, seems to me very extreme and not supportable at all. I hope you never have personal occasion to test out your theories first hand. When the police tell you you are under arrest, my advice is 100%, no questions asked, COMPLY. Fight them in court later, if you like. Write a letter to the editor. Protest outside the station once you are released. Write a book. Call your local news station. Make a web blog decrying your circumstances of arrest. Vote out the politicos who control the police in that region. Run for office. Call your Congressman. But IMHO, it is a fool who thinks resisting arrest is a wise move under ANY condition.
I would not resist and just fight it later, I just wanted to point out what the law actually says. But at the same time, America would not even exist had not our founding fathers resisted authority. Part of me agrees with what you say, but I would say if we asked the Jews in Germany before and during WW2 they would say something else. it is a fine line.

And I have nothing against the police, I think they have a rough job, and they deal with the insane public every day which would drive me nuts. I for one, would not want their job.

When someone that I do not agree with, looses their freedom, eventually I loose my own.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:36 PM   #44
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The whole incident reminds me of a drunk student at a hockey game yelling at the other team.

Does anyone know if he was intoxicated? I wouldn't call someone that is about to TAZE me, "bro".

-CC
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:03 PM   #45
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That kid should start a t-shirt/bumper sticker line that says "Don't taze me Bro!", he could make a fortune.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:13 PM   #46
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When someone that I do not agree with, looses their freedom, eventually I loose my own.
Agreed. But in this case, were freedoms lost or were freedoms preserved?

The disruption caused by this kid meant that the people who came to listen to Kerry were robbed of some of their freedom to hear Kerry speak.

This is why I say that Free Speech comes with responsibilities. If you are going to disagree, fine, but do it in a civil manner that respects MY freedoms.

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Old 09-20-2007, 04:43 PM   #47
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I do not want to get involved in this discussion as it is close enough to achieving Godwin's Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

What I would like to add is that everyone should at least look this over, in case the unthinkable happens and you are (hopefully wrongly) in such a situation:

American Civil Liberties Union : Know Your Rights: What to Do If You're Stopped by the Police
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:24 PM   #48
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I would not resist and just fight it later, I just wanted to point out what the law actually says.
I appreciate the perspective, even if I may not agree with it.

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But at the same time, America would not even exist had not our founding fathers resisted authority.
That is true. And they felt they were being wronged, and were prepared to pay the ultimate price. I am similarly inclined to fight vigorously for my rights, and also to fight government oppression. I just happened to think that this particular incident was a perfect case of when tasers SHOULD be used, and why police sometimes DO need to take action. He asserts he was just exercising his free speech rights. I feel the evidence shows he ended up creating a disturbance, resisting arrest, etc. So, for myself only, far from feeling the oppression of a police state, I'm dang glad they were there. I only wish they had perhaps acted more slowly. Maybe.

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Part of me agrees with what you say, but I would say if we asked the Jews in Germany before and during WW2 they would say something else. it is a fine line.
I would offer that this does not appear to me to be a case of creeping institutional shut down of legitimate citizen's rights, it is merely enforcing existing well-established law, that I for one happen to be completely sanguine about. CALEA act and warrantless wire tapping and suspension of habeas corpus for 'detainees' causes me true grave concern. One whiner getting taken down because he won't cooperate, never intended too and was dead set to be an attention w_hore does not worry me a bit.

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And I have nothing against the police, I think they have a rough job, and they deal with the insane public every day which would drive me nuts. I for one, would not want their job.
Amen, bro.

Quote:
When someone that I do not agree with, looses their freedom, eventually I loose my own.
"When someone that I do not agree with, unjustly loses their freedom, eventually I lose my own" Fixed that for ya....!!!!
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:34 PM   #49
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I wanted to post this, it is very slightly off topic I suppose, but if we are really talking about a practical way to make sure you secure your own rights, watch and learn.

The police have a difficult job, but they are generally NOT there to help you on a traffic stop. These tips could save those without a lot of practical experience from terrible mistakes. After you watch this series of videos, then pay attention next time you watch "Cops" and see how many times the person could have legitimately avoided a situation leading to their arrest.



BUSTED Clips | FlexYourRights.org

Of course, for a bit of comic relief, we need the ever popular (R for very salty language):

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Old 09-20-2007, 07:01 PM   #50
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DRIP Guy, those clips are great.
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No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

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Old 09-20-2007, 08:08 PM   #51
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Bigritchie-- I waited to see if you would post again before replying, just to see if you were trollin. You are absolutely correct if a person is being unlawfully arrested the courts have rule the have a right to fight. With that said many officer's spend hours learning the niggling little obscure laws to use for probable cause for all sorts of things. It is these out of the way laws that wind up getting people into trouble. If someone decides to fight because they, believe they are being illegally detained or arrested and in fact it is perfectly lawful all that happens is that person will be charged with more violations and possibly be hurt in the struggle.

I sat through enough prosecuting attorney investigations and had to explain the obscure laws used on the street enough to realize the lawyers don't know all of the laws and neither to officer's. However the officer's know the ones that will work and are pertinent to their jobs.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:31 AM   #52
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That kid should start a t-shirt/bumper sticker line that says "Don't taze me Bro!", he could make a fortune.
Too late:
Busted Tees - Jokes you can wear! Funny T-Shirts!
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:48 AM   #53
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That didn't take long.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:46 AM   #54
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University of Florida cops cleared in use of Taser on student
Wednesday, October 24, 2007
Associated Press


GAINESVILLE, Fla. -- University of Florida police were justified in using a Taser against a student who refused to stop questioning Sen. John Kerry on campus last month, according to a state investigation released Wednesday.

Some had questioned the use of force in using the stun gun against student Andrew Meyer, leading to the investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. A summary of the agency's report was released Wednesday.

"In short, the FDLE determined that our officers acted well within state guidelines," university President Bernie Machen said in a letter to students, faculty and staff.

Two officers who were placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation were reinstated Wednesday, Machen said.

Rob Griscti, Meyer's attorney, said he had not yet reviewed the report and had no immediate comment. The journalism major is known for posting practical jokes online on his Web site.

The scuffle between Meyer and police started during the Sept. 17 speech by Kerry when Meyer refused to leave the microphone after his allotted time was up, police said. The videotaped altercation and Meyer's cries of "Don't Tase me bro!" were played frequently on the Internet.

The report says the officers' intent was to escort Meyer from the auditorium, but he broke away and refused to follow the officers' instructions.

"Officers decide not to escalate to hard empty hand strikes, kicks, knees or baton ... (it) would have looked like the officers were beating Meyer into submission," the report said.

The report, which has Meyer's name and that of other students blacked out, said the officers did what was necessary to control the student.

"Our purpose is, and has always been, to ensure a civil and safe environment where the many types of campus activities and open discourse can occur," said Police Chief Linda Stump.

Meyer has been charged by police for resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, but the State Attorney's Office has not yet decided whether to file formal charges.

Spencer Mann, a spokesman for the State Attorney's Office, said the decision may be made some time next week.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...DATE/710240455
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:18 AM   #55
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I was thinking the other day, freedom of speech really does not apply here to this idiot. He went to LISTEN to a speech by John Kerry. It is his right to disagree with the speech HOWEVER he had no right to verbally or physically for that matter interrupt his speech. He is in the audience, if he was so annoyed about the speech he should have gotten up and walked out to show his displeasure.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:54 AM   #56
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Newguy:

This guy was pretty obnoxious, however he certainly didn't deserve what was done to him.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:55 PM   #57
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I think he needed a little jump start.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:06 PM   #58
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Who knew listening to John Kerry drone on for 2 hours could be so shocking? He never really charged me up during the '04 elections, however now he seems to have really amped up his public speaking.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:06 PM   #59
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We have had 3 deaths in Canada in the last month from tasers.

A 34 year old in London had a heart attack after being tasered. He survived but admitted being high on coke.

Apparently drunks and drug addicts and some medical conditions can be lethal if tasered.

I think our cops are becoming pussies. Maybe it's too many donuts.

If somebody is out of line then 2 big fit officers should be able to subdue.

If not then a shot of mace should make the job easier.

Tasers are not the answer.
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Old 10-25-2007, 06:16 PM   #60
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If not then a shot of mace should make the job easier.

Tasers are not the answer.
I think someone explained that mace would not be a good idea in a crowded auditorium, they would end up emptying the place.

Did you watch the whole video? People came there to listen to and ask Sen Kerry questions. This jerk was just there to cause a disruption and rob people of THEIR right to partake in free speech.

I hate it when people hide behind the term 'freedom of speech' to do whatever they please. I guess I'll just start robbing banks while I loudly criticize the war effort. Can't touch me, you might violate my rights.

Sure, that's silly. But no sillier than claiming 'freedom of speech' when all you want to do is disrupt a peaceful gathering. And I don't even like Kerry, but those people had a right to listen to him, and ask questions undisturbed. I'd expect the same if I went to listen to someone speak.

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