UPS Lost a Man's Nearly $700,000 Inheritance—And Offered $32 as Compensation

[Danmar]

Oh, I bet lots of people understood the reality of this story, but most of them didn't post.

Ya. That makes sense.

 

[MRG]

It funny to me how many people don't trust a physical delivery but trust a wire! The stories I could tell.

Here's one little gem. You can't do this today, but not that long ago someone could call certain mutual fund companies and have them wire you your balance, call back a while later and initiate the same wire. You could do this as long as the representative didn't recognize you! It wasn't till the following day your account would be negative after the money was wired away!

Don't assume because it's electronic it's safe!

 

[Texas Proud]

It funny to me how many people don't trust a physical delivery but trust a wire! The stories I could tell.

Here's one little gem. You can't do this today, but not that long ago someone could call certain mutual fund companies and have them wire you your balance, call back a while later and initiate the same wire. You could do this as long as the representative didn't recognize you! It wasn't till the following day your account would be negative after the money was wired away!

Don't assume because it's electronic it's safe!

That has nothing to do with the safety of a wire... that has to do with the MF company doing things it should not...

I have probably sent more wires than anybody else here (I did it for a living for a few years, many a day)... I never had one go where it was not supposed to go.... and if it did it was very easy to get the money back...

 

[socca]

Don't assume because it's electronic it's safe!

A story made the rounds a few weeks ago about clever thieves impersonating escrow agents in real estate closings in order to fool buyers into miswiring their money. This is especially nasty for all-cash buyers. I admit that I was a bit nervous when I did my all-cash RE purchase a few years ago.

 

[CoolRich59]

In these situations, it's always best simply to pay the wire transfer fee.

Yep. That was my thought too. Well worth the fee.

 

[MRG]

That has nothing to do with the safety of a wire... that has to do with the MF company doing things it should not...

I have probably sent more wires than anybody else here (I did it for a living for a few years, many a day)... I never had one go where it was not supposed to go.... and if it did it was very easy to get the money back...

No it has everything to do with wiring money from a fund company, any(The topic)! If you understand how funds are priced and accounted for, at least back then, it easy to understand you can't audit a value that won't be available for 6-12 hours in the future!

 

[NW-Bound]

No. Actually it was a bank draft (quite clear in the quote) These are guaranteed funds and should be treated like cash. The bank was willing to replace the draft but wanted an indemnity backed by security. This was an issue for the people who sent the draft. Once they went to the media it was settled in short order. So it was a “real story” and certainly not click bait. This happened in Canada so had nothing to do with 401k’s or IRA’s. Nuff said?

Much more difficult to stop payment on a bank draft. Banks will do it but generally require an indemnity and perhaps some form of security from the issuer. As a I said, this indemnity and security was the issue. It really wasn’t a story about UPS but rather the bank. Eventually, after the media got involved the bank apologized and they got their money back.

You can’t insure a bank draft. Do you think UPS could possibly insure a $700k bank draft?

If a bank draft is so susceptible to theft (payable to bearer?), I wonder why anyone would be willing to use it.

 

[Danmar]

If a bank draft is so susceptible to theft (payable to bearer?), I wonder why anyone would be willing to use it.

Generally not payable to bearer. You just need to be be really careful and not lose it. Much like a certified check. They are seldom used for large amounts. I would never mail or (I guess now courier it). Wire transfer for those.

 

[Another Reader]

Wiring is not very safe either these days. I sold a property earlier this year. The title company accepted a change of wire instructions from a scammer by telephone. After they assured me the money was on its' way late Thursday, it did not show up Friday. When I called the following Monday, the escrow officer realized they had screwed up and the money was gone. Before I could start screaming at her, she apologized profusely, and stated that a cashier's check would be drawn and sent out via Fed Ex that day. And it was.

This is a common scam now. All the title companies have been victimized, and they go over how to accept and verify changes in address and wire instructions with staff. Someone had gotten the clerk at this company to change the e-mail address and phone number, so when the new instructions were called in, it looked legitimate.

Never did hear whether they got the $265k+/- back. But I will not employ that title company again. Ever.

 

[audreyh1]

I hate mailing money.

 

[audreyh1]

Wiring is not very safe either these days. I sold a property earlier this year. The title company accepted a change of wire instructions from a scammer by telephone. After they assured me the money was on its' way late Thursday, it did not show up Friday. When I called the following Monday, the escrow officer realized they had screwed up and the money was gone. Before I could start screaming at her, she apologized profusely, and stated that a cashier's check would be drawn and sent out via Fed Ex that day. And it was.

This is a common scam now. All the title companies have been victimized, and they go over how to accept and verify changes in address and wire instructions with staff. Someone had gotten the clerk at this company to change the e-mail address and phone number, so when the new instructions were called in, it looked legitimate.

Never did hear whether they got the $265k+/- back. But I will not employ that title company again. Ever.

Wow! I had heard of this scam but it happened to you!

I thought these escrow people would be on to this now.

 

[Texas Proud]

No it has everything to do with wiring money from a fund company, any(The topic)! If you understand how funds are priced and accounted for, at least back then, it easy to understand you can't audit a value that won't be available for 6-12 hours in the future!

My point is that the wiring of money is not the problem, but the fund company.... there should be no way to wire the total balance of an account (or even a significant amount) without knowing the balance...

So, in you example where they could wire money twice... that is not an issue with 'wiring' money, but an issue with how the company accepted your request to wire money....

 

[Texas Proud]

Wiring is not very safe either these days. I sold a property earlier this year. The title company accepted a change of wire instructions from a scammer by telephone. After they assured me the money was on its' way late Thursday, it did not show up Friday. When I called the following Monday, the escrow officer realized they had screwed up and the money was gone. Before I could start screaming at her, she apologized profusely, and stated that a cashier's check would be drawn and sent out via Fed Ex that day. And it was.

This is a common scam now. All the title companies have been victimized, and they go over how to accept and verify changes in address and wire instructions with staff. Someone had gotten the clerk at this company to change the e-mail address and phone number, so when the new instructions were called in, it looked legitimate.

Never did hear whether they got the $265k+/- back. But I will not employ that title company again. Ever.

I will say this is the same as the MF example..... the wire was safe, it was the person who put down the information to wire the money that was the problem... good information gets the wire to the correct place, with an electronic trail to follow... no losing it along the way... I used to deal with many wires every day, both coming and going.... never had one misplaced or go missing... sometimes it might be a bit hard for them to find at times if the wire room handles a million a day, but the longest I had them take to find one was 15 minutes... and if the person sending the wire calls with a confirmation number it is found very quickly....

 

[tinlizzy]

The title sounds about right for UPS, we won't ever be using them again. We sent something marked fragile, packaged to the hilt, across country, it got to the location, just a mile away from destination, worker thought he "heard" something broken so sent it all the way back across country, ensuring it absolutely WAS broken. If they had delivered it, it would have been minor damage, but by traveling back damaged, it was destroyed. We had insurance on it, but because they returned it, they said they didn't have to pay the insurance because they didn't pack it.

Anyway, not sure if I was sending a check to a sibling that large that I wouldn't just deliver it in person... seems like the thing to do .

I'm a damage clerk for UPS and I'm sorry to hear that we broke your package.

This won't make you feel better but there are no degrees of damage on a damaged package in the UPS system. UPS considers any damage a total loss and has a damage clerk do an inspection and damage claim on the parcel immediately. Packages are then either discarded (liquids and glass) or sent back to the shipper. Damage claims after delivery usually work against you because the consignee throws away the box and packing material making an accurate inspection imposssible.

UPS doesn't care who packs the box and they wouldn't deny a claim based on that. Perhaps it was a UPS store (which are independently owned)?

___________________________

The letter - small parcels and letters are put in cardboard totes to travel down the conveyor belts (then they are placed inside heavy mesh bags for transport in trailers and planes). It would be my guess that a tote flipped over on a conveyer belt and the letter slipped under the end of the conveyor and became tangled in the machinery. About once a month they have machinists come take apart the belts to check for and retrieve mangled letters. If there are any they're given to the damage clerk who dissects the greasy, shredded letter to identify the owner then does a damage claim and returns the contents to the shipper.

 

[kcowan]

I have dealings in Canada.

While TD Canada Trust is nice and they have treated me well, they have some weird rules and behaviors sometimes.

Last summer I spend over an hour in the bank with 3 employees of TD trying to wire some money to a big name brokerage, they couldn't manage to do it. I finally left.

They will only allow you wire money in person, which I guess is there safety mechanism since they once wired a persons money to strangers (it was in the news).

We used to use TDCT to wire money from Canada to Mexico. I would initiate the transfer from the Bancomer office that was going to receive it. They charged $30 for the service plus FX. Then we were buying a car and they said I had to stop into their branch. I said I was in Mexico for 6 months and they suggested giving someone unlimited POA over my money.

We stopped using them and opened an account at Intercam. Got the money the next day in Guadalajara. Now we routinely deposit a C$ cheque and Intercam gives us a good rate for Pesos. And honours the money right away.

When we bought our condo here, Canaccord transferred the money to American Title in Jacksonville for no charge.

But I think the TDCT case is unconscionable. It appears that the bank employees were more intent of covering the backsides than serving the customer. When did this happen?

 

[Walt34]

Wiring is not very safe either these days. I sold a property earlier this year. The title company accepted a change of wire instructions from a scammer by telephone.

Here's another one:

Back when I first started working in the Fraud Section in the early 1990's I had a case where a group from a "Western Africa" country sold the same Baltimore row house three times in one day. I didn't work in Baltimore but the transaction happened in our jurisdiction so it was our case.

By the time they reported it the money was long gone.

 

[Scrapr]

Wiring is not very safe either these days. I sold a property earlier this year. The title company accepted a change of wire instructions from a scammer by telephone. After they assured me the money was on its' way late Thursday, it did not show up Friday. When I called the following Monday, the escrow officer realized they had screwed up and the money was gone. Before I could start screaming at her, she apologized profusely, and stated that a cashier's check would be drawn and sent out via Fed Ex that day. And it was.

Not quite like that but similar for us. We sold our home last year. Buyer vacations to Hawaii. Where he is hospitalized after breaking his leg. Can't return to sign closing docs. No problem. Sign in the hospital and overnight back. We are following the tracking and it goes into limbo. 3 days no word. I was freaking out. My worst fear was that someone intercepted and was going to send funds to N Africa.

Finally buyer returned to States and signed in person. Mortgage company funded the loan and we got our money. Title company refunded our fee. This title company was trying to get our Realtor business so cut him a deal. Then ate our fee. No Bueno

The End

 

[Texas Proud]

Here's another one:

Back when I first started working in the Fraud Section in the early 1990's I had a case where a group from a "Western Africa" country sold the same Baltimore row house three times in one day. I didn't work in Baltimore but the transaction happened in our jurisdiction so it was our case.

By the time they reported it the money was long gone.

Even one better.... while working for a public accounting firm, one of our clients managed home mortgages, seems they wanted to get more money because of a downturn and sold some mortgages.... sometimes 3 or 4 times... and we are not talking a couple, but $45 million....


https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/04/23/Mortgage-mogul-Couch-convicted/5453704001600/

 

[Hermit]

I transferred my Voya 401k to two USAA IRA accounts. It was all done electronically and quickly once the sale of the fund shares had settled. I’d never do a rollover by check. Too many things can go wrong.

I was told it had to be delivered to me. I would think it is a MegaCorp thing. They have some pretty arcane rules and I think the Voya people I deal with only handle my MegaCorp.

 

[HadEnuff]

No. Actually it was a bank draft (quite clear in the quote) These are guaranteed funds and should be treated like cash. The bank was willing to replace the draft but wanted an indemnity backed by security. This was an issue for the people who sent the draft. Once they went to the media it was settled in short order. So it was a “real story” and certainly not click bait. This happened in Canada so had nothing to do with 401k’s or IRA’s. Nuff said?

In which case this makes about as much sense as stuffing a brown envelope with 750K worth of cash and shipping that, does it not?

 

[MarieIG]

The shocking part for me was issuing the payment via bank check.

 

[Souschef]

The title sounds about right for UPS, we won't ever be using them again. We sent something marked fragile, packaged to the hilt, across country, it got to the location, just a mile away from destination, worker thought he "heard" something broken so sent it all the way back across country, ensuring it absolutely WAS broken. If they had delivered it, it would have been minor damage, but by traveling back damaged, it was destroyed. We had insurance on it, but because they returned it, they said they didn't have to pay the insurance because they didn't pack it. .

I shipped a well packaged case of wine some 300 miles to San Francisco. I got a notice that some of the bottles had been broken. I asked where were the rest of them? I was told the rest were broken on the return. I never saw them.
I took them to small claims court and got a $1200 judgement against them. I am almost positive someone broke open the case and drank the wine.

 

[NW-Bound]

I hate mailing money.

I hate sending money by any method. I love receiving money.

I like autodeposit or by ACH, although depositing a check by taking a photo on a smartphone is cool and saves gas for driving to the bank. Did that recently on two checks totaling $18K. Never did that before. No problem!

Recently, my sister-in-law introduced me to Zelle, which allowed me to send and receive money from people using just my email address. Another cool thing.

 

[Koogie]

I shipped a well packaged case of wine some 300 miles to San Francisco. I got a notice that some of the bottles had been broken. I asked where were the rest of them? I was told the rest were broken on the return. I never saw them.
I took them to small claims court and got a $1200 judgement against them. I am almost positive someone broke open the case and drank the wine.

When I first started working in my industry 25 years ago as an Assistant Junior Apprentice, Third Grade () the company I worked at had one of our major Canadian breweries as a client.

It was my job to load 20' and 40' ocean containers with cases of beer, BY HAND, for export to South America. The experienced guys, and once in a blue moon the warehouse manager, would help me when it was quarter end. On the days they helped, you can bet a lot of cases of beer got lost to "spillage" and "spoilage" at the end of the shift....

On the plus side, I got to keep the giveaway t-shirts and mugs that were packaged inside the cases during promotional periods. I still have one of those t-shirts that I get to wear when DW isn't around...

 

[fidler4]

I remember a deal several years ago where a guy working in a commercial area on a Saturday sees a FedEx truck pull to the side of the road, the driver gets out and puts a box into the bushes then drives away. The guy goes over and looks at the box and sees it’s open and there is $32,000 inside. He calls the police who start an investigation.

The police work with Fedex security and setup the driver. They place a similar type box with money in it on his route. Sure enough he takes the bait. After loading his truck in the morning he is seen (CCTV) putting the box into his personal car before he left on his route. He comes back later for lunch goes into his car and opens the box. He gets arrested and fired.

The original money was drug money being shipped from the east coast to the west coast so the odds of the shipper or receiver turning up at FedEx to make a claim are next to nothing. I just wonder how many other drug money boxes he had stolen before he was caught.