Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Very UnHappy - Want To Shoot Everyone Involved Out Of Cannon 37 44.05%
UnHappy 15 17.86%
Not Sure 5 5.95%
Don't Care 5 5.95%
It's A Good Thing 16 19.05%
Shouldn't Happen - But Doesn't Really Bother Me 6 7.14%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:12 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,375
US Domestic Spying

My phone company - Qwest - didn't turn over call records because they felt it would violate federal privacy laws and there was no warrant - so I don't have to worry about that call I made last year.
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:14 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Very unhappy.
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:19 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,000
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

I have no problem with us spying on domestics. Some of those people cannot be trusted and will steal from you if not closely watched.

__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:21 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,375
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
I have no problem with us spying on domestics. Some of those people cannot be trusted and will steal from you if not closely watched.


Hey, watch out - the NSA could have made a deal with Merry Maids, etc.
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:22 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,267
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Why do you question your leader? We are on the verge of a glorious new era!

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!

laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:22 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
samclem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

By "spying" are you referring to the collection of phone call data that, according to previous court rulings (1979), the government is permited to have without a warrant? If so, I'm not upset until somebody is shown to have used the data inappropriately.

Interesting editorial on this today in the WSJ:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/


There's past history of govt abuse in this area, so it pays to be vigilant--but nothing released to date has me concerned.
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:28 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,267
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

How do we know? The Justice Department opened a probe into it, the NSA refused to grant any investigators clearances, so the Justice Department said, "well, that just about wraps that up!" and shelved the investigation!

Any time anyone sues over abuses (including torture) the Federal branch simply tells the Judge, "dismiss the case because it might risk revealing sensitive data wrt national security". "Case Dismissed!". :P

One guy was picked up in Germany, taken to Afghanistan, tortured and interrogated for a few months and then it was realized they had a case of mistaken identity. He was flown to Albania, blindfolded, led to a top of a hill and released to find his own way home.

Of course, it's all good for the sake of national security until the potato sack goes over your head....
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:32 PM   #8
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 927
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

If this is legitimate, why was it a secret?

Yes, this bothers me. What bothers me more is that we wouldn't even know about it if someone hadn't leaked it.

What else are they doing that we don't know about? Nothing I'd be surprised by, that's for sure.



Caroline is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:35 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,375
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Sam - it's what we know so far.
A while ago AJ Gonzales was telling the senate that the monitoring of international calls was the extent of the spying or maybe he carefully choose his words to avoid lying to us...

I heard that about the phone records - I think there should be a warrant for those despite what a court judge ok'd - also not sure if the court in 1979 had in mind phone records of 10's of millions of people or for just an individual's...

If it wasn't for a free press we wouldn't know... The congress which is supposed to check the executive branch found out about it in the papers ( except for a few select friends of the administration)
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:40 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Even in the worst case scenario, if the government is listening to every conversation I have and every posting I make, it wouldn't bother me since I don't do anything illegal - at least not intentionally . *They would get bored with me very quickly.

I doubt most reasonable, honest people would think the government would be concerned with their lives.

The people that make noise in this area are usually people who are looking for attention or want to think they are more important than other people.

We are all the police, so if I were an average bad guy, I'd be more concerned with my next door neighbor turning me in to the local police rather than the NSA listening in on my phone calls.

For the terrorist, I would really hate the government having the power to listen in on my communications.

If the government starts abusing private communications by telling my Uncle Fred that I told my Uncle Mike that I think Uncle Fred's new wife is ugly, that would bother me.

So, I guess the collection of information doesn't concern me as much as what they are doing with that information.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 03:53 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Why do you question your leader? We are on the verge of a glorious new era!

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!

__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 05:28 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,148
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

1.* I wish "they" would inform Congress of what's happening, what they are doing with the call records, etc., so that, if it is reasonable, all the arm waving will stop.

2.* If there is a conspiracy to do something unethical, wrong or cruel to honest, ordinary citizens, I sure can't figure out what it is or what's in it for the current administration.* But, having said that, then why are they keeping it a secret from Congress?* It just doesn't add up.

3.* I wish Ted Kennedy would stop describing the activity as secret agents sitting in a van wearing headphones outside your home listening to you talk to your mother hoping you say something suspicious.* That isn't what's happening and Ted's misleading comments only reduce his effectiveness at getting to the bottom of the issue and getting it resolved.

*
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 06:33 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,855
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

I used to spy on our domestic all the time until she started wearing longer skirts...

Just kidding. I didn't think the debate was about domestic spying. I thought the debate was just about whose job it is to do the domestic spying. After all those NSA, CIA, & FBI unions can get pretty competitive. Good thing they're all part of the same Happy Homeland Security team now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Of course, it's all good for the sake of national security until the potato sack goes over your head....
Ah, if your conscience is clear then you have nothing to fear, right? Um, never mind.

Considering the technological challenges and the sheer volume of data to be processed, it's not amazing that someone is spying domestically-- it's amazing that they're actually learning anything from it. If one submarine crew can barely keep up with the crap that flows through its sensor net then I have no idea how the NSA can possibly distinguish unimportant crap from important crap.

Doesn't anyone remember the good ol' Hoover days? At least now I can submit a FOIA act request to read my surveillance file! I wonder if they have any good pictures of me doing a cutback in last week's surf...
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 06:41 PM   #14
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 22,923
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

..
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 08:36 PM   #15
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 927
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Quote:
But I suppose you could also use it to identify people who don't like the current administration, who support anti-war groups, who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom
You're behind the times, gmb...

"Early last week, NBC reported the existence of a secret Department of Defense (DOD) database related to "potential terrorist threats." One example of identified "threats" is a group in Lake Worth, Florida that included five Quakers and a 79-year old grandmother who met at their local Quaker meeting house to discuss how to protest military recruiting at an area high school. Other examples of "threatening" events in the database included handing out literature in front of military recruiting stations and commemorating the second anniversary of the Iraq War."
Caroline is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 08:40 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,000
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Uh Oh Caroline. I'm pretty sure that last post added your name to the list.

__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 08:57 PM   #17
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 927
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Thanks for the warning, REWahoo, but I'm pretty sure I was already on it!

Caroline
Caroline is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-12-2006, 11:16 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

For those of you are are asking the interesting question, "Why is it secret?" They tried going to the suspected terroists while in uniform but the terrorists stopped doing the bad things. Gee, imagine that the terrorists don't want to get caught so they stop doing their terrorist thing when the Fed's are around. It's kind of like using undercover cops to catch a bad guy doing bad things. The big difference is these are terrorists, who we currently are at war with, so that makes them enemy combatants without the protection of the U.S. Constitution.

The reason Congress isn't told is because they can't keep a secret to save their lives. In fact during I believe it was the beginning of Afganistan Bush went to Congress and filled them in on a few plans. If I remember correctly it took them all of 4 hours to leak the information to the press. I woul dprefer Congress to know nothing their inability to keep a secret vital to national security can and will get soldiers killed.

I'll leave my post at this as I'm tired of debating with people about war time issues, who seem to forget WE ARE AT WAR whether we like it or not.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-13-2006, 12:00 AM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,267
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Your circular reasoning is amazing. So let's get this straight, as long as we keep attacking countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, we can allow the Executive branch of the government run roughshod over the constitution, violate human rights, torture, etc.

Notice that wars againt pro-nouns never end? War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terror. So we have a never ending war, which excuses bypassing all the normal legal channels, forever. Hey I know, why don't we declare a state of emergency and suspend all elections, we need a steady hand at the helm until this war is over! Remember, we are at war!

Oh, and despite all of these actions, Osama is still flipping us off from his base in the hinterlands of Pakistan, our alleged ally.
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying
Old 05-13-2006, 04:33 AM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Tadpole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,427
Re: How Do You Feel About US Domestic Spying

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire

The reason Congress isn't told is because they can't keep a secret to save their lives.* In fact during I believe it was the beginning of Afganistan Bush went to Congress and filled them in on a few plans.* If I remember correctly it took them all of 4 hours to leak the information to the press.* I woul dprefer Congress to know nothing their inability to keep a secret vital to national security can and will get soldiers killed.
How many leaks have come from the FISA court?
Tadpole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Domestic Adjustments after ER BOBOT Life after FIRE 59 09-27-2006 02:13 PM
Domestic Dispute Sparked Goat Shootings justin Other topics 3 02-24-2006 02:52 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:17 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.