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Old 03-30-2009, 03:40 PM   #21
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Ok, well you're all making me nervous.
We are all very careful with money. Except of course in the stock market, where we cough it up in $100K gobs.

Ha
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:12 PM   #22
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[quote=WM;801773]Ok, well you're all making me nervous.
quote]

WM this deal would make me nervous but not afraid.

I bought a truck a few years ago that was not paid off. As I recall I gave the seller the full purchase price before the lien was cleared. I knew who he was, where he lived and trusted he would go take care of it. He offered to meet me at his bank so I could pay the balance direct and just give him his equity portion and I declined. I'm a little tougher on buyers especially if I don't know them. Cash only.
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:48 PM   #23
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Ok, I think I may have found something useful.

Finding a general power of attorney is easy, my question was how to scope it so that the seller feels confident that I can only use it for the car title stuff. Plus I need the bank teller to know what to do with it, which it turns out is also questionable. I called several bank branches and got a different answer at each.

The first guy said I could have the title sent to me, with a general power of attorney. The second woman said I needed to get DMV forms but it turned out she was talking about transferring the title when it comes in. The third one said there was no way to send me the title even with a power of attorney but she did suggest writing up the terms of the deal, including that the seller will sign the title over when it comes, and getting that notarized along with the bill of sale.

It turns out that the state DMV's website has a power of attorney that's just for automobiles, and it lists the specific transactions and identifies the vehicle it pertains to. I don't think the seller should have qualms about signing it, and hopefully the bank will be able to figure out how to deal with it. I think this is better, although it probably also increases the chances of confusion with the title paperwork.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:00 PM   #24
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I don't think the seller should have qualms about signing it, and hopefully the bank will be able to figure out how to deal with it. I think this is better, although it probably also increases the chances of confusion with the title paperwork.
I think you'd better be getting a killer price on this vehicle. I bet you're the only buyer who's lasted long enough to get to this point...
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:55 AM   #25
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It actually is a good price, although not so good that it seems too good to be true.

I thought about the form some more, and I think it doesn't have to be as hard as I thought. I think we do the bank transaction and she instructs them to send the title to my address. No POA needed.

It's when the title arrives, I take the notarized power of attorney to the DMV and, acting on behalf of the seller, sign the title over to DH.

Which makes more sense, because there's no way this should have to be so complicated - it must come up all the time. But thanks everyone for your ideas and comments. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:48 PM   #26
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I did the handoff today - check for the car, and I'm really satisfied that the seller is legit. She didn't understand the power of attorney, so didn't want to sign it, but I have a bill of sale and her prior registration, and another DMV form that we both signed. I checked the VIN and it matched everything she'd told me, and I know where her husband works. We also had plenty of time to talk while we waited for the bank to handle the paperwork. One piece of advice: don't bank at Wells Fargo. They were a font of misinformation, although the manager did eventually get everything worked out. The title is still going to her, it will take two weeks. But the loan is definitely paid.

So, all seems well for now. I'll be back with the finale in a couple weeks...
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:09 PM   #27
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Looking forward to the successful conclusion and update.
Many swear by Wells Fargo though much of my interaction with them has involved poorly trained staff that blocked my legitimate requests and required me to appeal to get resolved.
Sounds like the state of banking today as the neighbor I was chatting with tonight had two unsuccessful banking efforts recently and on both occasions when he called to complain the loan officer was not returning his calls was told they no longer worked there.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:00 PM   #28
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Stick with the local bank. Mine has an office on the Green and one at each end of town. That's it. I know the people there and they know me.
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sigh....still waiting
Old 04-22-2009, 09:51 AM   #29
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sigh....still waiting

Sorry, to say, not much good news to report yet. At the 10-day mark (which is when the bank said the title should come) the seller called them and they said everything was good, and their records show the title "en route." She also confirmed her mailing address with them, just in case.

Today marks another week, at which point Wells Fargo said she should call them back and check again. I'm not sure what their plan B is, but it's really starting to stress me out that it's not here yet. I'm still not worried about the seller, who has been very responsive when I've contacted her. But it would be really nice to get this settled.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:27 AM   #30
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Here's betting this simple transaction gets complicated.
WM, as Dave Ramsey says "it's almost like I've done this before".

Thanks for the update and keep us posted. The very good news is your seller is answering the same phone and has not moved out of town.
You just have to deal with WF, here's hoping it's just a few more hours or days rather than weeks or months.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:53 AM   #31
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Get that title or you may end up with this guys delema.

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I've had my car for over a year and I still don't have the title!

The story, in a nutshell, is that I bought my car in November '07 from a dealer and they said not to worry about the DMV - they will take care of it, and I should get my license plates and title in a couple weeks. Around January '08, I called the dealer to see what was going on, and they said they did everything they needed to do. I then went into the DMV to see where my registration was. The DMV told me that the dealer needed to submit some paperwork, and hadn't done that. They then suggested that I get the papers from the dealer and it could all be done here. I tried contacting the dealer several times, through phone and e-mail, and they never answered. I sat on it for a couple months because, surprise, I hate dealing with the DMV, and I had just gone through something similar with my last car. I went back into the DMV, told them the dealer isn't cooperating, and they told me there was nothing they can do - I had to get the dealer to submit whatever forms they needed to submit. I tried contacting the dealer again, several times, to no avail. Then I went back to the DMV after I was pulled over for no license plates, and asked what needed to be done. If I remember correctly (for some reason my mind is fuzzy on this) they suggested starting the process of getting a new title, or rebuilding the title. Either way, I agreed, and pulled around behind the building and got a VIN verification. Nothing else happened. I went back, again, now having two tickets for no plates, and the guy behind the computer wouldn't help - he just said DMV couldn't do anything. I brought up the VIN verification (couldn't find the paper, but they should have that on record, right?) and he wouldn't even check on it. I pressed him, and he got his supervisor, who told me to call DMV Investigations. I called, and they said they wouldn't do anything until I filed a complaint, but my problem might not be investigated anyway. I figure i'll try, don't see any luck there.

I talked to my roommate's mother, who apparently worked for the DMV for 15 years or so. She said Investigations probably wouldn't investigate on the first complaint, but the DMV they should be able to take care of this in the office with no problem. However, she hasn't worked there for 8 years or so, and things may have changed.

Before anyone asks, I drove the car for this long because it was my only way of getting to work. My shifts at work start between 4 and 6 in the morning, and public transit doesn't run that early. I can't get a ride from anyone I know because all of my friends party hard and are in no condition to drive, or they don't have a license at all. Most of the people at work don't haev a license, either. I had a bike but it was stolen shortly after I bought it. It takes two and a half hours to walk. I'm buying another bike today, but I don't have the money to keep buying them. As it is, i'm digging into rent money.

Considering i'm getting a different answer from a different person every time I go into the DMV (part of the reason I went in so many times - to try and get someone who knows what they're doing), I thought i'd try here. Does anyone have any insight on this? Maybe tell me the shortcut straight to the answer, or the secret password that makes them work with me, or at least the gun that puts the biggest hole in DMV workers? Either one works.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:09 AM   #32
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That's quite the story, but it seems a little odd. Starting with, what kind of "dealer" doesn't return phone calls and emails? And why can't he go there in person? I don't love the DMV either, but I can see why they aren't jumping up to give him a title for the car if he doesn't have any paperwork.


Anyway, progress this morning - at the suggestion of a friend, I called the seller's lender and gave them the VIN number and they looked up the record for me. Which I was surprised about, since I was completely honest that I wasn't the seller, and they don't know me from Adam. But the good news is the record is now showing no lienholder, and the paper title was issued on Wednesday and is being sent to the seller's address (which I verified). So I'm feeling much better, although I realize it's not over till it's over.

But I'm also feeling more wary of giving out personal information - I assume it was against company policy for the WF rep to give me that information, but I think because I knew a lot about the car (from carfax) and a little bit about the seller he decided it was ok. The friend who suggested I call said she's made calls like this any time she thought it would help and has had decent sucess in getting problems resolved. Good to know.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:27 PM   #33
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Get that title or you may end up with this guys delema.
Jambo, where did you find that story--here on the boards or somewhere else?
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:10 PM   #34
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Success!

The title showed up in the seller's mail today, so I met her at work and she signed it over. I even made it to the DMV before they closed and was able to get temporary tags (To get real plates, it turns out we have to do a VIN verification with a car dealer because the title is out of state).

We still have no idea why the title took so long to get through WF's processes, but at this point I'm just glad to be done with them. The seller is newly upset with them because they just raised the rate on her credit card by almost 2% for no reason she can see.

So yeah, next time we buy a car I think it will be from someone who's got the title in hand. I hope this one turns out to be worth the hassle!
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:47 PM   #35
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Congratulations WM. I'm glad this worked out for you.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:45 PM   #36
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WM, congrats you made it!!!
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:14 PM   #37
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Thanks! I drove the car around this morning to run some errands, and it's really nice - a substantial improvement over our old one. Very fun.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #38
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I think I would insist that the seller provide clear title no matter how hard it is. At least then it is the right person doing all the work.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:59 PM   #39
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Lots of interesting thoughts surrounding this thread and I hope I'm not to late to post this interesting article. It was in the Wall Street Journal this morning, titled "Don't Get Scammed" by Jonnelle Marte. It involves wire transfers but was not directly linked to vehicle sales. She says you should never,ever wire funds. I personally can't go along with the word "never" but she raises some issues that I think bears reading this article.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:58 AM   #40
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Jambo, where did you find that story--here on the boards or somewhere else?
It was over on the Miata forum.MX-5 Miata Forum
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