Used or new car?

[FinanceDude]

We helped our daughter buy a used 2001 Taurus this year. It is nothing fancy, but it is heavy, solid, has side airbags (an option) excellent crash test results, and has been reliable so far (after replacement of the broken rear springs, a comon problem Ford knows about but will not fix). Cheap, reliable, safe transportation.

Maybe the Fusion and Malibu can tout the same thing in the future.....

 

[73ss454]

Kinda like the day I ordered 8 Neons and Plymouth shipped me 46, and said "We can't help you". Later that week I got followed around by the CFO screaming in my ear for an hour about "floorplan interest"..........

Yeah, and now that some customers want the dealers to give up the 3% that helped pay that interest, well...........you know

 

[bright eyed]

Ok, so we test drove the car- for a long drive ! As some reviewers noted, it is not that quick up a hill - we were loaded up with a tall/big salesguy, 2 kids in their car seats and SO in the back. Handling is great, really like a regular car, but not so quick up the hill, I was almost flooring it to get to about 40 mph - but didn't try the automatic/manual which allows me to downshift pretty easily - so only question would be if we ever went up to the mountains, how slow would we go?!

Otherwise, liked everything else - the flexibility of the interior has many different configurations, love the lower entry than pilot (no more lifting toddler!) and sliding doors rock!

I also have to recommend the emailing dealers feature on edmunds, very painless, one simple form, went out to all the dealers in about 20 or so miles and got very quick responses, they are all answering questions promptly and I don't have to drive around and talk to people.

Also applied for loan on penfed, which was also super easy! So once I decide something, will pull the trigger on the loan and go to the dealer.

All the dealers so far are coming in below invoice - msrp is 22675 and invoice is 21229 according to edmunds, and quotes now are at about $20k.

When we took the test drive, they told us they only sold 3 cars that weekend! A good weekend for them was about 40 cars, high around 60-70, so this was the worst!

One dealer is offering a 2008 new, for $19k...any reason to hold out for a 2009?

having fun...so far!

 

[73ss454]

If the 2008 and 09 are the same and you're keeping it for the long term I'd go for the 2008. 6 years from now it won't make any difference what year it is, it's mostly condition at that point. So why not save the coin now.

If you like the options and color of the 08 make a lowball offer and see what happens.

 

[Rustic23]

If it is slow up hill, no problem, if that translate into it is slow passing, that's not safe. Really depends on how many two lane roads you drive. I had a 4 cyl Accord. When you went to pass, it actually took power off the car momentarily, to let the engine speed up (so the salesman said) then accelerated. It worked but there were a couple of times that it gave me a sinking feeling.

 

[REWahoo]

Consumer Reports says of the Mazda5, "The 4-cyl engine provides adequate performance but lacks reserve power when carrying full loads or climbing hills", so your test drive jives with their ratings. Although the car shows only average reliability, they do list it as a recommended model.

 

[haha]

Consumer Reports says of the Mazda5, "The 4-cyl engine provides adequate performance but lacks reserve power when carrying full loads or climbing hills", so your test drive jives with their ratings. Although the car shows only average reliability, they do list it as a recommended model.

I hate underpowered cars. There are hills and mountains all around me, and it just doesn't work out. I have a Subaru Impreza which is pretty good, but I wish I had paid up for the WRX with turbo. Years ago I had a Saab 3 cylindar 2 cycle. My wife's aunt and uncle were visiting. I had to ask them to walk up the long drive where I could pick them up, because my car didn't have the torque to handle the extra 400 #. Embarrassed me totally.

Ha

 

[Lakedog]

I'd love to stick to honda if they had a car w/ the same features -

Have you looked at the Honda Element? Some do not like the looks but after I drove one, I ended up buying an Element in '07. It is great for dogs, has lots of leg room (I'm 6'3"), gets decent mileage (my AWD averages 24-25 mpg with mix of driving and 29-30 on the highway), and has plenty of power even though it is a 4cyl. This is my first Honda (after driving Toyota's for years) but so far it has been a great car.

 

[Rustic23]

And with the Element you can go camping!

This is done by a firm in San Diego. Ursa Minor Vehicles - ECAMPER

 

[bright eyed]

I hate underpowered cars. There are hills and mountains all around me, and it just doesn't work out. I have a Subaru Impreza which is pretty good, but I wish I had paid up for the WRX with turbo. Years ago I had a Saab 3 cylindar 2 cycle. My wife's aunt and uncle were visiting. I had to ask them to walk up the long drive where I could pick them up, because my car didn't have the torque to handle the extra 400 #. Embarrassed me totally.

Ha

boo! Me too, does downshifting on hills get you the power you need?

We live on a hill with hills all around so that is my greatest fear in terms of annoyance.

That said, 89% of the time it will just be me and the girls so about 400# less than we had on board for the test drive...

 

[bow-tie]

Maybe the Fusion and Malibu can tout the same thing in the future.....

I sure hope so. Detroit has become home of the fleet queens. It's the only thing that keeps their volumes up.

I really hope the new 'Bu is a game winner. I dig the looks, and I hope it's a strong car long-term.

 

[haha]

boo! Me too, does downshifting on hills get you the power you need?

We live on a hill with hills all around so that is my greatest fear in terms of annoyance.

That said, 89% of the time it will just be me and the girls so about 400# less than we had on board for the test drive...

To a degree, yes, especially if your car will wind up to high rpms. But there are limits. I think if you live in a hilly or mountainous area it is best to get adequate power from the get-go. With low power it can be hard to start a loaded stick shift car from a stop on a steep hill.

Ha

 

[brewer12345]

bright eyed, if you aren't completely sold on the 5, take a spin in the Kia Rondo. Supposed to be a nice car in much the same vein.

 

[harley]

Have you looked at the Honda Element? Some do not like the looks but after I drove one, I ended up buying an Element in '07. It is great for dogs, has lots of leg room (I'm 6'3"), gets decent mileage (my AWD averages 24-25 mpg with mix of driving and 29-30 on the highway), and has plenty of power even though it is a 4cyl. This is my first Honda (after driving Toyota's for years) but so far it has been a great car.

We were looking at one, for the dogs, the camping, and all the other reasons. But we drove two of them, and they both shook and rattled far worse than my Highlander. Also seemed to be under powered. We wanted to like it, but it convinced us otherwise.

 

[Salaryman]

I've always bought used cars (preferably owned by one owner, I use Carfax for my due diligence when shopping) at a discount and then drive them down to the ground. Been told that car's depreciation is the greatest in the first three years or so, so my preference is for someone else to take the hit on the depreciation. Especially now, there should be decent buying opportunities if you are careful and patient.

Had great experiences with Mazda RX6 which lasted 180k+ and we're still driving our 97 Volvo 850 and 94 Volvo 940 each with 130k+ miles on them. Dem foreigners sure know how to build good cars that last.

Salaryman

 

[Lakedog]

We were looking at one, for the dogs, the camping, and all the other reasons. But we drove two of them, and they both shook and rattled far worse than my Highlander. Also seemed to be under powered. We wanted to like it, but it convinced us otherwise.

When I tried out an Element back in 2003 (first model year), I had a similar impression but I am very pleased with the '07 I bought. It is very solid, no rattles (yet), and the engine hp was increased that year. Of course, I had a Toyota truck before so maybe I was never used to a lot of power. I drove every small SUV out there before settling on the Element. It is great for dogs with no carpet in the rear and the rear seats come out or flip up very easily for more cargo room (my mountain bike will fit inside without removing the front wheel). I travel and do some camping, and it is ideal for my lifestyle....haven't found another vehicle that I'd rather have.

 

[bright eyed]

Update:

So been waiting for Honda to do the inspection on my car so I can return the darned pilot, it will be done next week (finally!), I didn't think their back log was so big, but no problem, I'm not in a rush.

A dealer in the area has a 2008 New Grand touring in the color and package I want - but now - 2008 seems really old - really it could more than 1/2 a year or more - is there any mechanical concerns tied to that?

My SO thinks I should ask them for fresh tires, wipers and a battery - what say ye?

The price they're quoting online is decent about $21k before TTL, but that's before negotiating anything and I've seen folks quote a bit lower on 2008's in the last month.

They also have upped the premium financing and are now offering 0.9% financing for 60 months so no longer using penfed for that one.

I'd love to get about $20k out the door...

Anyhoo let me know if you have thoughts on buying such an old new car! i wonder if it's just been sitting around on the lot? can't have too many miles on it...If i don't get this one i'll have to opt for different color package and i'm not really keen on that since every other color only offers tan leather and that does not hold up well over time.

 

[kumquat]

My SO thinks I should ask them for fresh tires, wipers and a battery - what say ye?

These depend on use or time.

• A battery usually lasts 5 - 7 years
• Tires 30 -70K miles OR 7 years
• Wipers - who cares, $10 each

These won't be a problem on a NEW 2008. Ask them for an SO discount instead. If asked, an SO discount is "s/he won't let me buy it unless you discount it"

 

[samclem]

[FONT=&quot]I'm sure you could ask to see the dealer's paperwork to see when they took delivery, then you'd know how long it has been sitting there. I would think the tires and wipers would be fine (I would worry more about the seals and rubber you can't see, but they certainly aren't going to give you new brake parts and other goodies--and I wouldn't want them messing with them anyway on a new car). If cars have really been moving slowly, they may give you an accommodation. I'd look over the paperwork and if the car has been on the lot longer than 3-4 months I'd get on my most dour expression and let them know you are really concerned about a lot of bad stuff that happens when cars just sit--flat spots on the tires, water in the fuel tank that begins the rusting process of the tank, seals in the brakes and bearings that won't seal up right after being in one spot for so long, etc, etc. "This is supposed to be a new car, but it's been sitting for a long time out in the sun, leting a car just sit is bad for it, these modern fuels start to go bad after a realtivey short time--who knows what's in that tankat this point--I sure don't , etc . . ." Then, after you've gotten your best price, tell them you'd feel better about all of this if they'll add a year of dealer coverge onto the factory warranty so you won't have to worry about the hundreds of things that could be wrong with the car. And don't breathe a WORD about liking the color--as far as they are concerned, you really don't like it very much . [/FONT]

 

[harley]

If possible, take a baby with you, a grandchild or maybe borrow somebody else's. The best deal we ever made was when my DD was < 1 and screaming at the top of her lungs the whole time. Nobody offered us an extended warranty, we didn't play the "let me talk to my manager" games, just got our price, signed the papers, and got out. I'm thinking of starting a business renting kids out for these kinds of things. I'll charge for the babysitting and the rental, double dipping!

 

[FinanceDude]

[FONT=&quot]I'm sure you could ask to see the dealer's paperwork to see when they took delivery, then you'd know how long it has been sitting there. I would think the tires and wipers would be fine (I would worry more about the seals and rubber you can't see, but they certainly aren't going to give you new brake parts and other goodies--and I wouldn't want them messing with them anyway on a new car). If cars have really been moving slowly, they may give you an accommodation. I'd look over the paperwork and if the car has been on the lot longer than 3-4 months I'd get on my most dour expression and let them know you are really concerned about a lot of bad stuff that happens when cars just sit--flat spots on the tires, water in the fuel tank that begins the rusting process of the tank, seals in the brakes and bearings that won't seal up right after being in one spot for so long, etc, etc. "This is supposed to be a new car, but it's been sitting for a long time out in the sun, leting a car just sit is bad for it, these modern fuels start to go bad after a realtivey short time--who knows what's in that tankat this point--I sure don't , etc . . ." Then, after you've gotten your best price, tell them you'd feel better about all of this if they'll add a year of dealer coverge onto the factory warranty so you won't have to worry about the hundreds of things that could be wrong with the car. And don't breathe a WORD about liking the color--as far as they are concerned, you really don't like it very much . [/FONT]

These days, the dealers should feel LUCKY that ANYONE wants to buy a new car. You have leverage, use it.........

 

[2good]

Actually the sticker with the VIN number on the B-column tells you exactly the month and year of production as well as production location. This will tell you more than the dealer paperwork since sometimes dealers swap cars.

 

[Hobo]

I learned a lesson a long time ago but if you don't understand economic analysis you will never learn this lesson. The lesson is to do an present value analysis for any car deal. Just to make things simple, let's say you have a choice between a used car with 20,000 miles for $14,000, or a new car for $20,000. If you plan on keeping the car until it has 160,000 miles, and you drive 20,000 miles per year, the used car will give you 7 years. The new car will give you 8 1/2 years. Simple math says the used car will depreciate at $2,000 per year; the new car will depreciate at $2,350 per year.

Now $350 per year is not much, it may go far in paying your insurance. Other factors enter the equation, such as wear and tear on the used car. Or if you buy from a private seller, you can both write in a low sales price - and pay less sales tax. If you buy the new car on credit you must factor in the interest payments versus the interest not earned if you pay cash.

In the past, I have always looked for a private seller who NEEDS to sell a used car with low mileage for some reason. I always take the used car to a mechanic for a complete check-up before I buy.

In most cases, the used car is far cheaper (on an annualized basis) than the new car. And remember, a car is the one, large, investment that ALWAYS looses money. Its like putting $20k in a hole in the ground - and coming back 8 to 10 years later and it is gone.

Think about this and buy the cheapest car that is reliable and will meet your needs. Forget about the glitter, and the thrill, and the new car smell - all that is expensive to buy and is quickly lost to time. Stick the money in a mattress - at least it will stay there!

 

[bright eyed]

Thanks for the good advice (as usual)...I'll make sure to note the production date and make some sour faces...

I've emailed w/ their online folks quite a bit, and I'm always surprised the same car is just sitting there, what an economy! This dealer is also in an isolated area so not a lot of convenience shoppers there.

Hope the inspection goes well then I'm off to the dealer!

My kids are usually well behaved, but maybe I will take them without snacks and before a nap after a long day out? haha

 

[Bimmerbill]

I have a car addiction. My wife sees them as point A to point B tho. So I take her since she has no patience with me tormenting the car salesmen. She will bad mouth the car, and say how much better she liked the competitors car, etc. Its like good cop, bad cop!

Last car I bought I emailed a bunch of Honda dealerships and requested best quote on a Honda Pilot. Went in, bought it from a local dealership that offered invoice, minus the hidden $3000 rebate for MY leftovers. Some dealers "forgot" to tell me about the rebate.

I did get thrown out of one of them. New saleswoman, didn't know anything about the car and my trade in. I'm afraid I was rather abrupt ;-)