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Old 12-27-2009, 10:14 PM   #21
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Oh, I can tell the difference between vinyl and CD.

To me, the latter is far superior. And that was when the record was just pulled out of its sleeve, not when it has been injected with scratches and worn out with the "BSR Special" tone arm+nickel.

However, I will read the link you provided to see the argument the other way, I presume.

PS. I did, and it was not convincing. I suspect that most people like myself cannot discern the effect of digital quantization, but can easily hear the scratches and the eventual degradation of the sound when the groove modulation gets worn out due to repeated playing.
As in most things - "it depends".

CDs give really good sound, very reliable, and rarely any degradation at all.

But great vinyl, played with a great cartridge will sound great - arguably better than a CD. I personally don't get hung up on the differences, CDs (or more generally, 16 bit 44K sample rate digital) are "good enough" for me, and I do like the convenience.

I've been surprised two times with vinyl. Once, when I got a new cartridge and learned that some of the distortion that I heard in some tracks was *not* in the record, it was my old (highly rated) cartridge. The new one was clearly better. So if you listen to vinyl with mediocre equipment, expect mediocre (or worse) sound.

The second surprise was when I put some well recorded vinyl on after years of CD listening. I couldn't believe how good it sounded. I think all those associations with pops and crackles and surface noise and distortion was from poor recordings (which were common). But the really good stuff was great. Did it sound 'better'? I dunno, but I wouldn't argue with someone who claimed it did to them. Sometimes a little distortion and softness (from the analog process) can sound 'better', or maybe just more 'familiar', or 'preferable' to some ears.

At my age, I no longer worry about wearing them out from a few plays every few years ( again, with a good cartridge and cleaning before every play). But I do want to digitize them for the convenience factor.

And no compressed digital for me (other than for casual listening). I don't even care if I can hear the difference or not, it just does not make sense to me to intentionally degrade the source material that I own. I do use FLAC, which is an open source, non-destructive (loss-less) compression. Similar to 'zipping' a file, you get back exactly what went in, but only ~ 2:1 compression.

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Old 12-27-2009, 10:32 PM   #22
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Yes, it depends.

I bought into CD fairly early in 86. The debate was raging then between vinyl and CD. I remember one expert pointed out that CDs (back then) sounded harsh because the recording engineers tended to abuse the digital process. They mixed in too much "scintillating" highs, a lot in the high-end spectrum that would not be possible with a record. They tried to show-off the new technology's capability, and ended up abusing it.

I remember trying to listen for that effect with my CDs then, and somewhat agreed with that expert.

Then, I happened to pick up a CD with a re-released old duet by Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald. Now, I never had the record of the original release, but I seriously doubt if it would sound differently or better on vinyl.

In short, I tend to agree with that expert's testament that when a CD sounds worse than a vinyl, it is often the audio engineer's fault rather than the digital technology.

About sound compression, yes, one can go too far in compression and ruin the sound. No argument here at all.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:43 AM   #23
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There is a steady stream of records coming on the market from people who are done with vinyl, people that need to raise money, and dead collectors. (yes i have seen them)

I'm reading and hearing that vinyl is growing. The record music industry sees it as a growth business. They are putting out new and reissuing the old on heavier grade vinyl (like 180 grams). One of my places - Electric Fetus has expanded their new and old records area...they say their cd business is trending down while vinyl is growing....music companies are marketing with stickers like "hear the music the way the muscians wanted it heard" , etc. and charging around 20 - 35 for them! I prefer to get the original in good shape and when possible have what's surrounding the record in good shape....cheaper than new and has a different meaning for me.

Used to be it was just old guys like me in the old stacks and a few hip younger guys...now it's really catching on with the 20 somethings they're buying records and the crates to hold them...it's heartwarming to see them getting excited about their new discoveries of the old music, except when they try to grab the ones I want ...looks like there is this new generation that is picking up the vinyl torch...

We have a store here that just specializes in needles and players etc - the Needle Doctor

By the way a great resource for music in any form is AllMusic

...and here's a recent story Vinyl Records and Turntables Are Gaining Sales
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:53 AM   #24
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I always thought the Bon Scott era AC/DC sounded the best on vinyl.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:18 AM   #25
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I kept all my records from the time I started buying them in the late 60's and just kept going , buying records for pennies when CD's took over the music world. I'm currently at around 2,000 records or so, all kinds from Classical to Country passing through Jazz and Folk Why? because they sound so good!

With proper cleaning and good playback equipment records have a warm musical sound that can be approximated with CD's but it costs a lot more to do so in top notch CD equipment. And then, although CD's can sound very good, many are recorded way to "hot" so they sound very shrill and fatiguing.

I basically listen to CD's or digital downloads as background music when I'm doing something else. I listen to records when I'm really listening to the music.

By the way, with proper playback equipment and record care wear is a non issue. I have records that I've played dozens, maybe hundreds of times and they still sound pristine.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:22 AM   #26
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Just moved. Into the trash.
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:07 PM   #27
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Just moved. Into the trash.
...is the can still out there...
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:11 PM   #28
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Just moved. Into the trash.
Did that on my last move, back in 2002. Haven't regretted it for one instant. Actually, I put them beside the big dumpster at my old apt complex. I am sure someone found what they considered to be a bonanza. And I was rid of an albatross, for once and for all.
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:15 PM   #29
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think I see some poopies on this thread
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:06 PM   #30
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I enjoy playing my albums and love the cover art. You can get cheap but nice album frames from Michael's or whatever craft store type dealie you have nearby. I'm sure they are cheaper than Resto, Harley.

I frame my favorites and hang them near the stereo. I have digitized some of them, but it is a huge pain in the butt and I lack the patience to do a really good job of it. One of these days I'll probably get around to it.

I did a cool thing the other day, though. Hooked up that Airport Express wireless doohickey so I could play music through the stereo from my iTunes on the computer. I use my iTouch as a remote (free app) and I've been pretty pleased with it.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:25 PM   #31
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I wonder if there is anything left in their sound to digitize.
Perhaps you should continue to keep them just for looks, while searching for new releases on CDs or MP3.
As soon as Spooky Tooth's Spooky Two, Larry Raspberry and the Highsteppers Highsteppin' and Fancy Dancin', Spirit's Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus, and It's A Beautiful Day's It's A Beautiful Day At Carnegie Hall, among others, are released on CD, I'm there...

Oh, no, something went wrong
Well you're much too fat and a little too long
Hey, hey, got too much to lose
Better get on home to the animal zoo...

Animal Zoo, Spirit
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:18 PM   #32
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Did that on my last move, back in 2002. Haven't regretted it for one instant. Actually, I put them beside the big dumpster at my old apt complex. I am sure someone found what they considered to be a bonanza. And I was rid of an albatross, for once and for all.
That was very kind of you to set the box beside the dumpster. Dumpster diving is not all its cracked up to be.... Funny how records fit so neatly into the old adage - one persons thrash is another's treasure
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:30 AM   #33
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As soon as Spooky Tooth's Spooky Two, Larry Raspberry and the Highsteppers Highsteppin' and Fancy Dancin', Spirit's Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus, and It's A Beautiful Day's It's A Beautiful Day At Carnegie Hall, among others, are released on CD, I'm there...

Oh, no, something went wrong
Well you're much too fat and a little too long
Hey, hey, got too much to lose
Better get on home to the animal zoo...

Animal Zoo, Spirit

That brought back a long forgotten memory! I saw Spirit in Toronto in 1973 at a hole in the wall theater near or on Spadina Ave. A remastered Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus is available.

Amazon.com: Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus: Spirit: Music
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Giving your records a bath
Old 04-30-2010, 07:44 AM   #34
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Giving your records a bath

I found and am tempted to get the Spin Clean Record Washer

I've been using a damp micro fiber cloth but giving my babies a real bath could take me to the next level of sound happiness.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:25 AM   #35
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I found and am tempted to get the Spin Clean Record Washer

I've been using a damp micro fiber cloth but giving my babies a real bath could take me to the next level of sound happiness.
Clean records are critical for good sound. I've read good things about the Spin Clean (see this thread Anybody else order a Spin Clean recently? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums ) but I haven't used it myself. I use an RCM made by Nitty Gritty and it does a really good job.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:18 PM   #36
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I still have my collection of vinyl (about 700 records) and listen to them regularly. In the mid 80s when I thought turntables may become completely obsolete I purchased a couple of spare Shure V15 Type V cartridges. Still have an unopened one left.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:34 PM   #37
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I still have my collection of vinyl (about 700 records) and listen to them regularly. In the mid 80s when I thought turntables may become completely obsolete I purchased a couple of spare Shure V15 Type V cartridges. Still have an unopened one left.
That's great hang on to those Shure V15's they don't make them anymore. It sure looked in the 80's that turntables and the whole vinyl world was done for. Now I'm amazed when I go to record swaps at all the young people so enthused about LP's. The only downside to this new found popularity is that it sure is getting a lot more difficult to get either free LP's or 10 cent ones like I used to.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:37 PM   #38
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That's great hang on to those Shure V15's they don't make them anymore. It sure looked in the 80's that turntables and the whole vinyl world was done for. Now I'm amazed when I go to record swaps at all the young people so enthused about LP's. The only downside to this new found popularity is that it sure is getting a lot more difficult to get either free LP's or 10 cent ones like I used to.
I too have been amazed at the number of young people buying vinyl. You're right it has raised the price.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:06 PM   #39
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Clean records are critical for good sound. I've read good things about the Spin Clean (see this thread Anybody else order a Spin Clean recently? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums ) but I haven't used it myself. I use an RCM made by Nitty Gritty and it does a really good job.
That's quite a site!

There are 375 posts so far just on Spin Clean. Very thorough and informative.

Also Audiokarma has:
Members: 78,945
Threads: 257,382
Posts: 3,236,512

And I thought ER was large.

Thanks. Nice to have another support group.

PS: Just checked out the Nitty Gritty. Wow! That's a serious cleaner....makes the Spin Clean look chintzy
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:16 PM   #40
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Another good audio forum is :

AudioAficionado.org
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