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Old 10-27-2015, 10:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
If you are planning to go that route, get another credit card with as high a credit limit as poss. if you have not already done so.

Under $1,000 , the cc. issuing bank will prob. not go to court for a judgement against you, but I think your credit will drop to the 600 range for years.
I don't know if this is true, but be careful, most insurance companies have started pegging individual's rates to their credit scores. This could end up costing you more then 800 dollars. Weren't you considering perhaps buying and flipping houses? Your credit rating is important for more things then people are aware of.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:03 AM   #22
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Like I said, either way Im not paying the bill. Even if an $800 disputed and unpaid bill shows up on my credit it wont do much at all to my credit rating. If it drops me from 810 to 770 for a year it wont make any difference at all to my day to day credit life, but I will get the satisfaction of knowing this guy wont get over on me like he probably has lots of others. Im hoping he has enough other complaints and charge backs that it causes him a problem with his credit card company
As others have said, if the CC co rules against you, they will pay him, so you won't get that satisfaction. Your only satisfaction against him is to leave a bad review. No doubt he will counter with an explanation, and perhaps an accusation against you that will paint you as being unreasonable. I don't think you'll be to counter his response.

It's up to you but I suspect refusing to pay a credit card balance will impact your score by more than 40. Also, that $800 balance will increase with interest every month until they give up, but they may give up by selling your debt to a collector. So then you'll have a debt collector calling you at all hours and hassling you, and probably suing you. Ignoring a lawsuit becomes more serious.

It's all unfortunate but I would think carefully about making your situation worse by not paying the debt.

I'd be inclined to contact the owner and negotiate a partial refund.

I'm curious about where the place is and would be interested to see the VRBO listing, but it's up to you whether you want to provide it here.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:22 AM   #23
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I had something like this happen once before. I had some medical procedure. About 8 months later I got a bill from the doctors office for something like $700. I called them and they said the insurance company wouldnt cover it. The insurance company said they wouldnt cover it because the doctors office waited 6 months to file the claim and they missed their deadline.

I called the doctors office back and they agreed that it was their fault and they would write off the bill and I didnt owe anything. About 2 months later I got a letter form a collection agency about the $700. The doctors office who agreed it was their fault and I didnt owe anything sent the bill to collections anyway. Similar to this current incident, I refused to pay. I told the collections agency what happened and told them I would never pay and they would be wasting their time calling me ever again.

It did show up on my credit report but had hardly any affect on my rating and definitely didnt stop me from getting credit or getting the best interest rate on a car. I doubt this $800 would knock my credit down to 600 and I already have more credit cards than I need.

Ill try to find a link to the listing but Im not sure it will matter. It looks like a great place.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:34 AM   #24
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I had something like this happen once before. I had some medical procedure. About 8 months later I got a bill from the doctors office for something like $700. I called them and they said the insurance company wouldnt cover it. The insurance company said they wouldnt cover it because the doctors office waited 6 months to file the claim and they missed their deadline.

I called the doctors office back and they agreed that it was their fault and they would write off the bill and I didnt owe anything. About 2 months later I got a letter form a collection agency about the $700. The doctors office who agreed it was their fault and I didnt owe anything sent the bill to collections anyway. Similar to this current incident, I refused to pay. I told the collections agency what happened and told them I would never pay and they would be wasting their time calling me ever again.

It did show up on my credit report but had hardly any affect on my rating and definitely didnt stop me from getting credit or getting the best interest rate on a car. I doubt this $800 would knock my credit down to 600 and I already have more credit cards than I need.

Ill try to find a link to the listing but Im not sure it will matter. It looks like a great place.
Now I'm curious, does anyone know how much clout Visa/MC have on your credit rating? They are some big players and I wonder if messing with them will hurt more then a disputed doctor charge. To the OP, technically you will owe this bill if the charge back claim goes against you. You used the method that the CC company has in place for settling disputes and they did not agree in your favor. According to the T and C you agreed to when you signed off on getting the card, you owe the credit card company the money. They don't say they will always give your money back, they say they will be impartial and decide where the money should go.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:42 AM   #25
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We will see. AT this point they have put a hold on the charge while the investigation is done. I actually find that the CC companies usually side with the customer. They don't want to lose the customers business as I can easily cancel my card and get a different one. They know the merchant cant just cancel their account and stay in business.

The person on the phone was very sympathetic towards our situation although I realize she wont be the person handling the investigation.

Like I said, either way Im not paying the bill. Even if an $800 disputed and unpaid bill shows up on my credit it wont do much at all to my credit rating. If it drops me from 810 to 770 for a year it wont make any difference at all to my day to day credit life, but I will get the satisfaction of knowing this guy wont get over on me like he probably has lots of others. Im hoping he has enough other complaints and charge backs that it causes him a problem with his credit card company

I have disputed charges before and they always suspend the charge.... and I have been told by the CC company that the merchant followed the rules and that they were not going to take the charges off the bill.... that I had to deal with the merchant myself, or as I mentioned go to small claims court....

BTW, not paying the bill does not mean he does not get paid.... he will.... the CC company will take the hit if you do not pay.... it then becomes an issue between you and the CC company... they will not pursue it since it is so small, but they might report it...


Also, I had one dispute that took between 6 to 9 months.... it can drag on for a good amount of time....
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:51 AM   #26
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My brother in law has a wholesale shoe business. He sold a guy $40,000 worth of shoes which he paid for by credit card. The guy did a charge back and kept the shoes. The credit card company sided with the customer even though my brother in law had proof that the guy still had the shoes. It had something to do with my brother in law not entering the 3 digit security code correctly, so I guess you could say he screwed up, but that just goes to show how much the credit card companies side with the consumer. The guy kept the shoes and my brother in law got screwed out of $40,000. Its not like we stayed there and kept this guys product and refused to pay later. I'm confident I will win this dispute. Its fine if it takes 9 months as long as the money is on hold during that time.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:59 AM   #27
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Utrecht I have had dozens of people rent my vacation property via VRBO and I've never had a single negative word of feedback and nothing but 5 star reviews from every guest but something tells me if you were a renter that would change.
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Old 10-27-2015, 12:54 PM   #28
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It was so bad we never even met the owner or went to the actual apartment. The neighborhood was not safe to be in after dark.
From what you described, the neighborhood didn't sound too safe. However, you didn't even go to the apartment. You also mentioned that the owner said you got off at the wrong subway stop. Maybe the apartment was very nice and the immediate surroundings were nice to
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:03 PM   #29
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My brother in law has a wholesale shoe business. He sold a guy $40,000 worth of shoes which he paid for by credit card. The guy did a charge back and kept the shoes. The credit card company sided with the customer even though my brother in law had proof that the guy still had the shoes. It had something to do with my brother in law not entering the 3 digit security code correctly, so I guess you could say he screwed up, but that just goes to show how much the credit card companies side with the consumer. The guy kept the shoes and my brother in law got screwed out of $40,000. Its not like we stayed there and kept this guys product and refused to pay later. I'm confident I will win this dispute. Its fine if it takes 9 months as long as the money is on hold during that time.

WOW.... sounds like he got screwed on a technicality..... did he sue? For that much, I would have hired a lawyer and sued.... looks like an easy win case... however, he might not have had any money....


Do not get me wrong.... I hope you win... I have won the slam dunk ones, but not where it was a dispute on if I got the service level I expected...
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:24 PM   #30
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Utrecht I have had dozens of people rent my vacation property via VRBO and I've never had a single negative word of feedback and nothing but 5 star reviews from every guest but something tells me if you were a renter that would change.
Why? You think I'm hard to please?

If someone can tell me how to post pictures from my phone, Ill be happy to show some of the neighborhood Im talking about
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:28 PM   #31
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If someone can tell me how to post pictures from my phone, Ill be happy to show some of the neighborhood Im talking about
This post in the Forum Admin section will help you Forums 101 - posting, accounts, basics
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:31 PM   #32
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From what you described, the neighborhood didn't sound too safe. However, you didn't even go to the apartment. You also mentioned that the owner said you got off at the wrong subway stop. Maybe the apartment was very nice and the immediate surroundings were nice to
That's very possible, but I had no idea there was another way to get to the apt. We got off at what looked like the closest stop and walked towards the place. If we needed to go to a different stop to avoid the war zone, I would think the owner would tell me that.

The place looked nice in the pics and we wanted to stay there. The last thing we wanted to do was go thru all of this hassle. This could've easily been avoided if the owner had given us instructions, but Im sure he doesnt want to lose customers who dont want to be a stones throw from muggings and shootings. Now he has to deal with this hassle also.
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:56 PM   #33
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Ill try to find a link to the listing but Im not sure it will matter. It looks like a great place.
It's more of a curiosity thing (for me, anyway), plus we can do what was suggested in the other thread, I think, to use google maps street view to actually look at the neighborhood. I'm also trying to learn how to spot VRBO issues, since I had a good experience the one and only time I used it last month and would probably try again.

I'm also a bit confused that you could book a place, and file a dispute that's still ongoing, but it somehow seems difficult for you to find the link to it.

I'm still buying your story, but not as strongly as before. Not that we are the ones you need to convince.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:09 PM   #34
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It's more of a curiosity thing (for me, anyway), plus we can do what was suggested in the other thread, I think, to use google maps street view to actually look at the neighborhood. I'm also trying to learn how to spot VRBO issues, since I had a good experience the one and only time I used it last month and would probably try again.

I'm also a bit confused that you could book a place, and file a dispute that's still ongoing, but it somehow seems difficult for you to find the link to it.

I'm still buying your story, but not as strongly as before. Not that we are the ones you need to convince.
My wife booked it and she is out of town. She sent me a link to it on my phone and Im trying to figure out how to post it here when the link is on my phone. I find it amusing that someone would think I would make this up. For what purpose?
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:12 PM   #35
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We have other pics but you get the idea. Sorry they are sideways. This tech stuff isnt my strong suit.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2201.jpg (1.03 MB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2198.jpg (690.2 KB, 26 views)
File Type: png IMG_2202.PNG (981.7 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2197.jpg (584.2 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2199.jpg (444.1 KB, 22 views)
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:17 PM   #36
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A few more.
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File Type: jpg IMG_2196.jpg (453.6 KB, 18 views)
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:19 PM   #37
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Lisa's Townhouse - Luxury Condo Style... - HomeAway Brooklyn

You can see that the pics they have posted of the neighborhood look nothing like the pics I posted. It may well look like their pics but like I said, they shouldve told us which stop to use so we wouldnt be putting our safety at risk. I guess we shouldve kept walking all the way to the apt but it never occurred to me that the neighborhood might change. I was sure we had been duped. Even if the place itself was nice, I thought we would be exposed to the area I posted every time we went to and from the apt to go sight seeing and there's no way I would be walk thru there after dark.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:20 PM   #38
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The owner will just say that your photos are not of the property and were taken X Blocks away from the property. Good luck with the refund.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:29 PM   #39
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The street sign says "Macon". A quick Google Maps search shows that this is a long street adjacent to Bedford-Stuyvesant, which even I know is a high crime neighborhood. A Google search also found this forum discussion from 2011:

Macon Street, Brooklyn Safety (Utica, Stuyvesant: crime, vacation home, neighborhood) - New York City - New York (NY) - City-Data Forum
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:32 PM   #40
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Like I said, if the owners wants happy customers, he should tell people from out of town the best way to enjoy his property. Getting stabbed while walking to the apt is probably not going to make his customers happy.

He told my wife that we just didn't want to be in a predominantly black area and that the area was safe.
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