Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-19-2009, 08:29 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,129
Harley are there any non-third world countries who have done something like you are proposing? If so, what can we learn from them?
__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-19-2009, 09:03 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Harley,
Excellent posts.
#1
Thanks for taking the time and thought that went into it. I agree with the concept of legalized pot and hash - meaning handled similar to alcohol. There are resulting problems - using both can multiply the effects. Also, as with alcohol there are health effects that society would need to agree to. As we are attempting to get people to stop smoking cigarettes, we would be adding a similar product. Something that would give me pause and I would want more info about.

As to the second post - other drugs. I think it is important to name the drugs. Just using the term drugs is impersonal (?). But to say meth should be sold to anyone over 21 should cause anyone to pause. This concept also raises the question about any new drug that is invented. The so called designer drugs, how should they be handled?
__________________

__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:48 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
I truly don't have a complete answer for the legalizing all drugs question, although my gut instinct is that it would still be better than our current social situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
This paragraph is more regarding pot, but valid for hard drugs too:

I recognise that there would be issues at first, with increased use and experimentation. But after a few years or a decade or so things would normalize. At that point I believe our society would be in such better shape as to appear to be a paradise compared to what is happening now. I believe the solution is important enough that it deserves a fair chance. Prohibition has been in place for almost a century, so a couple of decades of an alternative experiment shouldn't be too much to ask.
------------------------------------------------------
I think a study of the historical use of opiates (China) and other drugs would not support this. There have been socialital prohibitions against drugs for many hundreds of years - wikipedia says thousands. The were reasons people thought their society were better without certain drugs and those need to be addressed. As to the concept that things are terrible now they can only be better if drugs were legalized is not good reasoning. I think the pubic school system has been terrible since I was in grade school. Some school systems have a 50% drop out rate in high school. It does not follow that it would be a better system if we lowered the manditory attendence to the 8 grade . Changes in the school system should be explored. Simarly, changes should be explored to the current war on drugs.

Prohibition (drugs) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
I understand that there will be people with problems, and those problems would effect others. However, pretty much anyone who wants currently illegal drugs can get them without any problems now. So we have that situation now, and we have a legal system capable of dealing with people who overstep the bounds. Driving under the influence (real, not from smoking a joint 10 days earlier), family abuse, violence, improper public behavior, etc all have consequences now, and there doesn't need to be any real change in the laws for street drugs.
I don't agree that everyone is plugged into the illegal drug trade. Also, there are threasholds and/or fear that prevents many from even looking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
I believe any drug with therapeutic use should be legal, even if it had to be prescribed. As Khan says, heroin should be legal for terminal patients. What do they have to lose, and why shouldn't they be able to choose their preferred medication? And who cares if they ft addicted. They can't take it with them.

In keeping with this, I believe doctor's should be able to prescribe pain medication at levels they think is appropriate, without having to worry about DEA interference, loss of license, and jail. Again, there are already ways to deal with doctors who abuse their power, and they should be used when required. Cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), steroids, lsd, speed, downers and others all have medical uses, and could be prescribed if they were legal and warranted.
No real issue with the concept and not very germaine to what we are talking about. Heroin might be a great drug for the terminally ill and there might also be other great legal drugs available. Are there so many terminally ill people scoring illegal herion? A bit of a distraction and probably an issue for another discussion - "early retirement and the ending of life; choosing when"

Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
As far as social use of harder drugs, I think they can be a lot of fun. I do recognise the addictive aspect of some of them, as well as the potential physical effects of long term use. Again, I'm not sure how to apply sales and availability issues to these. But if someone wants to trip out and watch Fantasia or do a little Valium to kick back after a bad day, jail is a pretty severe consequence. I truly believe that over time education would effectively limit the number of people using, much less abusing the drugs. The abusers would need to be dealt with through education and rehab. If their actions required it, LE would come into play. Just as it does now with anyone who breaks the laws.

I'd actually be quite interested in hearing other's ideas about the harder drugs being legalized. It would be an intellectual exercise only. I suspect it would require decades of lower level drug legalization before this issue could even be raised seriously.
I think you have set up the question well. I would only stress that the use of the word "drug" or "recreational drug" doesn not make it real to me.. Being specific l just as you did with pot makes it real - Crack cocaine, meth, qualudes etc. Also, the short and long term affects of the legalization of these drugs need to be added to vision.
Health - how will long term use affect the health of the user, how should society address this
Addition - how handled
Economic - once addicted and the person can not pay for the drug - what then
Economic - if addicted and can not work how is the person handled by society
Social - affects of use on family

Just saying a drug should be legalized is not even the first step in the discussion and vision of this new world.

Finally, the concept of equating all perceived wrongs as equal is doubtful. To say alcohol is abused and society has handled that so it is ok to legalized meth and society will handle that does not show an understanding of the issues. For example, alcohol use in western culture began as a partial solution to polluted water. The west used fermenting to address the issue, the east used boiling water. There are other issues. Serfice to say the equating is not a good argument.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 04:36 AM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 3,244
I wonder if there could be a discussion of "legalization" vs decriminalization? "Legal" implies at least some tacit approval. If you sell (currently illegal) drugs in a drug store, it's sort of like saying "this stuff isn't that bad for you." Sort of like cigarettes. We know that if you use them long enough, they can kill you, but probably only about 8 to 10 years early. If you are willing to trade 10 years for the "pleasure" of smoking, go for it.

But with decriminalization, we still say "this stuff is bad for you and you shouldn't do it, but we aren't going to throw you in jail for buying or selling it." You can't get "safe" or "known potency" drugs in a store, but if you want to take your chances, go ahead. Just don't break other laws while your on the stuff (e.g., doping and driving).

I would be the first to suggest this isn't very satisfying, but I'm much more worried about someone robbing me for dope money than a doper hurting me because he's high - I already worry about (and look out for) the latter. Decriminalizing wouldn't change that equation much IMO.

This is a tough subject and I hold no animosity against anyone who disagrees with me. I think we all wish the "problems" with drugs could go away. They never will. Is there a way we can minimize or control the problems without draconian measures? I hope so. Too many lives have been ruined or ended because of our current situation and our current reaction to the situation.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:32 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,434
My only issue with decrim versus legal is that it doesn't solve the big problem, which is the violent black market. I'm not neccessarily looking to make things better for pot smokers (although that would be nice). I'm looking at the big picture of making a serious improvement in society.

As far as approval, we sell all sorts of things that aren't good for you, from cigarettes to Twinkies. We give lip service to being a free society, although that is changing with the trans-fat police and all. But if we are free in general, then I just don't see why marijuana has to be the exception. Maybe it's a gateway drug, leading to twinky addiction.

That wouldn't change if it was legal, but it might change the gateway to harder drugs syndrome if the buyers weren't required to work through an illegal black market to get their herb.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:40 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Harley are there any non-third world countries who have done something like you are proposing? If so, what can we learn from them?
As far as hard drugs, the closest there is that I know of is Denmark. There's not much there that I would want to base our policy on, and I don't know how it has effected their culture. I'll see if I can read more.

Obviously, the Netherlands is the best example of nearly legal pot, as well as tolerance towards harder drugs. Also Vancouver has done a lot too. Almost all of the problems found in the Netherlands are due to out-of-country people (Americans and other Europeans). As far as their own levels of use, it's significantly less than ours, which should counter the "everybody will become addicted" theory. The use of pot and heroin by young people is also significantly lower than in the US.

The Netherlands Compared With The United States | Drug War Facts
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:45 AM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
I think a study of the historical use of opiates (China) and other drugs would not support this. There have been socialital prohibitions against drugs for many hundreds of years - wikipedia says thousands. The were reasons people thought their society were better without certain drugs and those need to be addressed. As to the concept that things are terrible now they can only be better if drugs were legalized is not good reasoning. I think the pubic school system has been terrible since I was in grade school. Some school systems have a 50% drop out rate in high school. It does not follow that it would be a better system if we lowered the manditory attendence to the 8 grade . Changes in the school system should be explored. Simarly, changes should be explored to the current war on drugs.

Prohibition (drugs) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, as I said, I don't have a clear answer on this. I do believe that there are better ways to deal with the drug issue than just throwing users in jail. My main point on the War on Drugs is that it is a failed policy, expensive in dollars and human misery compared to what it accomplishes.

In order for the Drug War to be "Over" (your OP), we as a society would have to change the way we deal with drug users. We have many failed policies, but they don't get ended, mostly because of the entrenched interests in keeping the status quo, or the complexities that would be involved in making such a huge change. Not good excuses, IMHO, considering the problems they cause. Not just prohibition, but the tax code, immigration, and others.

Quote:
I don't agree that everyone is plugged into the illegal drug trade. Also, there are threasholds and/or fear that prevents many from even looking.
I didn't say everyone was plugged in, I said everyone could get whatever they want without too much trouble. A lot less than the six degrees of Kevin Bacon. This does not speak well to the effectiveness of the prohibition. And I do agree that there are those (myself included) who don't currently imbibe due to the outsized dangers of the legal response. I don't agree that this is a good thing.


Quote:
No real issue with the concept and not very germaine to what we are talking about. Heroin might be a great drug for the terminally ill and there might also be other great legal drugs available. Are there so many terminally ill people scoring illegal herion? A bit of a distraction and probably an issue for another discussion - "early retirement and the ending of life; choosing when"
Again, due to prohibition there aren't many here using it. However, it's fairly widely used in certain 3rd world countries like Switzerland, Holland, the UK, etc. It's pretty well known to be an incredibly effective analgesic, but not here because of the mania surrounding the word.

Quote:
I think you have set up the question well. I would only stress that the use of the word "drug" or "recreational drug" doesn not make it real to me.. Being specific l just as you did with pot makes it real - Crack cocaine, meth, qualudes etc. Also, the short and long term affects of the legalization of these drugs need to be added to vision.
Health - how will long term use affect the health of the user, how should society address this
Addition - how handled
Economic - once addicted and the person can not pay for the drug - what then
Economic - if addicted and can not work how is the person handled by society
Social - affects of use on family

Just saying a drug should be legalized is not even the first step in the discussion and vision of this new world.
No argument, there are many isses to be addressed, and much study and thought required. It very well might be that we decide to keep many of these drugs illegal or very difficult to get (prescription). However, it would be nice if these questions could be raised. My problem is that there can be no serious discussion due to the political ramifications. If anyone with power were to seriously address the issue, they would be hounded from office. Words and thoughts are dangerous to the entrenched interests.

Quote:
Finally, the concept of equating all perceived wrongs as equal is doubtful. To say alcohol is abused and society has handled that so it is ok to legalized meth and society will handle that does not show an understanding of the issues. For example, alcohol use in western culture began as a partial solution to polluted water. The west used fermenting to address the issue, the east used boiling water. There are other issues. Serfice to say the equating is not a good argument.
At some point, it comes down to some people saying "I don't want to do these things, so I am going to keep you from doing it too." Personally, I doubt that there would be many meth users if it was available. It's a damaging and dangerous drug. So are many others. There will always be some idiots who use them, but most will shy away.

My (and many others) basic point in this discussion is that the Drug War/prohibition in it's current form is a major failure, and needs to be revisited from a thoughtful and rational direction. If we as a nation could discuss/vote/decide on the process, I wouldn't be able to say much after the decision was made, although I could continue to politic about it. But the nanny state aspect of the current policy, the "I know what's good for you better than you do" and "it didn't hurt me but I'm going to put you in jail" attitude of our ex-drug using type A politicians is so offensive it makes me want to scream. I'll bail on the harder drug issues, since they cn't even be addressed in our current situation. But there's no excuse for continuing the War on Pot Smokers, and most people agree. Feature: Zogby Poll Says Both Coasts Favor Letting States Legalize Marijuana -- What Is It Going To Take?

I hope we can reconsider the prohibition soon. It does appear that there is some progress being made. I really truly believe it will have a seriously positive effect on our society.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:34 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,434
Just an aside, whenever people have the power to prohibit, they will try - The Associated Press: NJ considers ban on bare-it-all 'Brazilian' wax
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:55 PM   #49
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
Just an aside, whenever people have the power to prohibit, they will try - The Associated Press: NJ considers ban on bare-it-all 'Brazilian' wax
Yes. And oddly, many of the same type folks who preach "less
government" are the same ones who are all in favor of this sort of
stuff.
__________________
RustyShackleford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 03:46 PM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyShackleford View Post
Yes. And oddly, many of the same type folks who preach "less
government" are the same ones who are all in favor of this sort of
stuff.
What is really odd is this non sequitur.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 11:06 PM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
What is really odd is this non sequitur.
It's just the old "Democrats want to be in your wallet, Republicans want to be in your bedroom" issue.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 12:06 AM   #52
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 474
As far as I can tell, absolutely everyone that does studies this issue comes to the same conclusion: that the war on drugs does far more harm than good.

From conservatives like Buckley and the National Review to the Cato institute to Rand to the centrist Economist magazine and apolitical consumer reports to liberals like Stephen Jay Gould and Noam Chomsky everyone seems to agree on this issue, though not on the exact solution.

The question really isn't if recreational drugs are good or bad. It's how long people should spend in jail if they want to use them. How long should our last three presidents have spent in jail for their drug use?

You can't find countries with legalized recreational drugs partly because they have all been strong-armed into signing treaties that require them to ban substances the US doesn't like. But, I do understand Portugal has made some steps in this direction. And there's always Denmark. Or the US prior to the 1900's.

I would be interested in any analysis anyone can find that supports drug prohibition that doesn't come from the DEA.
__________________
bongo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 11:37 AM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo2 View Post
As far as I can tell, absolutely everyone that does studies this issue comes to the same conclusion: that the war on drugs does far more harm than good.
More harm that good when compared to what?

NIDA - Research Report Series - Methamphetamine Abuse and Addiction
Long-term methamphetamine abuse has many negative consequences, including addiction. Addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease, characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, accompanied by functional and molecular changes in the brain. In addition to being addicted to methamphetamine, chronic abusers exhibit symptoms that can include anxiety, confusion, insomnia, mood disturbances, and violent behavior. They also can display a number of psychotic features, including paranoia, visual and auditory hallucinations, and delusions (for example, the sensation of insects creeping under the skin). Psychotic symptoms can sometimes last for months or years after methamphetamine abuse has ceased, and stress has been shown to precipitate spontaneous recurrence of methamphetamine psychosis in formerly psychotic methamphetamine abusers.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 12:17 PM   #54
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Compared to not throwing people in jail, which, as I said, can take different forms.

While total legalization of all recreational drugs is not the best solution, I believe all the above except Rand support that over the current policy. Rand proposes a more tolerant, but still highly regulated, approach.

Is there anything on the NIDA website supporting drug prohibition? There was a lot there on treatment and addiction, but I couldn't find any analysis supporting (or even statements that NIDA supported) the current policy. Their tagline "treatment is the key" suggests to me that they don't feel that jail is the most appropriate place for drug users.
__________________
bongo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 12:33 PM   #55
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 105
Hey Harley, Rusty, Bongo,

The words of a very old song have been running through my mind while I've been reading this thread. Something like:

"If you waste your time talkin' to
People who don't listen to
The things that you are sayin'
Who do you think's gonna hear?"

Any of y'all know remember who sang this?
__________________
noworkethic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 01:47 PM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo2 View Post
As far as I can tell, absolutely everyone that does studies this issue comes to the same conclusion: that the war on drugs does far more harm than good.

From conservatives like Buckley and the National Review to the Cato institute to Rand to the centrist Economist magazine and apolitical consumer reports to liberals like Stephen Jay Gould and Noam Chomsky everyone seems to agree on this issue, though not on the exact solution.

The question really isn't if recreational drugs are good or bad. It's how long people should spend in jail if they want to use them. How long should our last three presidents have spent in jail for their drug use?

You can't find countries with legalized recreational drugs partly because they have all been strong-armed into signing treaties that require them to ban substances the US doesn't like. But, I do understand Portugal has made some steps in this direction. And there's always Denmark. Or the US prior to the 1900's.

I would be interested in any analysis anyone can find that supports drug prohibition that doesn't come from the DEA.
I only read the Rand comment and it is not as you state. The quote below from the article is more accurate.
"While Republicans and Democrats in Washington seem addicted to the old failed ways of dealing with drug-related crimes, new political voices in the states - faced with the harsh realities of shrinking budgets -- are bringing fresh perspectives to the problem. New York Gov. George Pataki recently proposed eliminating mandatory jail terms for nonviolent drug offenders and sentencing them instead to treatment or community service. Both alternatives are far cheaper: it costs $35,000 to lock up one offender for a year, compared with an average $18,000 for a year of residential care or $2,500 in an outpatient program.
Funding for treatment is the key if the Pataki approach is to succeed. Otherwise, tens of thousands of addicts will be back on the STREETS, much like the deinstitutionalization of mental patients in the 197Os which closed the asylums but failed to provide alternatives."



What we are discussing here is the legalization aspect. No one has stated that we should the current "war on drugs" is working the way would would like.


Saying that treatment is a good way for handling drug crime is not saying legalization is the answer. I don't think anyone would deny treatment is part of the solution.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 02:00 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by noworkethic View Post
Hey Harley, Rusty, Bongo,

The words of a very old song have been running through my mind while I've been reading this thread. Something like:

"If you waste your time talkin' to
People who don't listen to
The things that you are sayin'
Who do you think's gonna hear?"

Any of y'all know remember who sang this?
I do not think the posters you mention need my defense but, I find your comments as a veiled attempted to insult them.
Some of them have voiced the idea that legalizing drugs such as meth is a good idea. It isn't that they are not listening. It is that fleshing out the idea of legalization is not easy and in attempting to do so the difficulties (maybe not insurmountable, maybe so) raise their head.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 04:53 PM   #58
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
What we are discussing here is the legalization aspect. No one has stated that the current "war on drugs" is working the way would would like. . .Saying that treatment is a good way for handling drug crime is not saying legalization is the answer. I don't think anyone would deny treatment is part of the solution.
I think I said above that Rand does not argue for legalization, but rather that the current emphasis on enforcement is a disaster. I'm not sure what you read that contradicted that.

I must have misunderstood the discussion. Your initial post seemed to be arguing for greater enforcement. You would support dropping enforcement of drug laws as long as they remain illegal e.g. Denmark?
__________________
bongo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 09:11 PM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by noworkethic View Post
Hey Harley, Rusty, Bongo,

The words of a very old song have been running through my mind while I've been reading this thread. Something like:

"If you waste your time talkin' to
People who don't listen to
The things that you are sayin'
Who do you think's gonna hear?"

Any of y'all know remember who sang this?
Kris Kristofferson
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 02:12 PM   #60
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo2 View Post
As far as I can tell, absolutely everyone that does studies this issue comes to the same conclusion: that the war on drugs does far more harm than good.
Anyone, who is not yet convinced that our national hysteria over illegal
drugs has gone too far, should read the following article about a 13yo
girl strip-searched for suspicion of possessing ibuprofen tablets of
prescription strength (double the ones you can buy OTC):

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/us/24savana.html

The school's anti-drug policy ...
__________________

__________________
RustyShackleford is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you think of America's "war on drugs" ? Bram Other topics 43 03-28-2008 02:32 PM
Re: 92 Year Old Woman Killed in the War on Some Drugs II Cattusbabe Other topics 3 05-01-2007 05:14 PM
92 Year Old Woman Killed in the War on Some Drugs Craig Other topics 32 11-25-2006 02:47 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:40 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.