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Old 01-24-2014, 05:31 PM   #21
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Thanks Wolf...think I isolated it to the drain with the help of all of the replies .

Not a supply problem (water in from shower head)...at the moment. Doesn't mean I may not have one in the future.

Plumber finally came by this morning. Took a quick look. Shower pan o.k. Only reason I need him now is to the source the 20 year old flange thing for me. Said he might have one in the shop.

Once that is replaced and sealed (quick 2 minutes) will test again.

Have actually repaired "small" holes in my sheet rock before (from furniture knocking a hole when moved by my brother) but haven't fixed anything more than 3 inches square.
If I need to...though....I'll give it a go!
Thanks for the support!
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:13 AM   #22
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Update: Evidently no one can find a replacement part for my current drain assembly. It is a 3/2 but what keeps it from working is the thread design and first thread that starts the screwing in process. Tried to repair the old one but plumber "broke" it.

So, I'm scoping out redoing both upstairs bathrooms. Something that has been on my list for a long time.

Daughters bathroom: Demo old 37 inch neo-angle. Put in new 48/36 inch rectangle. Tile the floors. Keep soaking tub, vanity and double sink and toilet. Replace and update hardware.

Kids Upstairs Hall Bathroom: Remove 1 piece tub/shower that has a cap and replace with something that doesn't have a cap so room looks bigger. It's small: 5 X 8 but because of the roof cap on existing it looks even smaller (wall soffit built above it). Eliminate tub and build just a shower instead. (there is still a large garden tub in daughters room upstairs).
New shower could be 60inches X 33 inches)

Here are my questions and I appreciate any and all thoughts.

1) These are "upstairs bathrooms. One of the reasons I didn't tile them 20 years ago is I worried about "leaks". Are "leaks" a valid concern with upstairs bathrooms?
I suppose I could answer my own question here considering what has happened with this drain assembly in this old 20 yr old shower but I'd still appreciate thoughts on this.

2) I could:
a. go back in with acrylic component shower units (MAAX) and tile floors which is an improvement
b. go back in with just the acrylic base unit and tile shower walls and floor
(Im thinking drain leaks again)
c. go back in with fully tiled shower including the floor of the shower plus floors of the entire bathroom.

What problems might I have if I go in with an acrylic base units and just tile the shower walls? Should I worry about the adhesion of the tile with the acrylic base?

I could certainly save a lot of money if I simply went in with full component acrylic units, tiling just the floor, switching out hardware, etc.

My husband uses the small hall bath quite a bit. Daughters bathroom rarely used except on visits.
What are buyers looking for in kids bathrooms? Are they expecting tile? The master bathroom is tile.

Thanks for all responses!
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:55 AM   #23
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Sheehs1: I've dealt with shower pan issues on two occasions and last April completely redid upstairs master bath. I highly recommend that if you redo a shower with tile, you use a membrane system like I did (believe it's called Kerdi by Schleuter). It makes much more sense in terms of maintaining a waterproof barrier than the usual pan with grout and cement board overlap. I've had two failures with the latter that were done by "professionals." I was absolutely anal installing the membrane, but once done I have absolute confidence in it.

Sort of off the subject, but I loved Breaking Bad for two reasons. 1) it was a great series and 2) When Skylar walked into the bathroom and went, "oooohh, heated tile floor!" I was 3 days from laying the tile and immediately thought, wow, what a cool idea. So for $400 of materials I did the whole floor and got the programmable thermostat. Was really impressed with it, until this winter when I'm REALLY impressed with it!
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:58 AM   #24
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........Thanks for all responses!
If you haven't already, research and post at this tiling forum re bases and waterproofing.
Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile - Powered by vBulletin

If this really all hinges on not being able to get that one drain part, it might be cheaper to have a new one made at a machine shop.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:07 AM   #25
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Sheehs1: I've dealt with shower pan issues on two occasions and last April completely redid upstairs master bath. I highly recommend that if you redo a shower with tile, you use a membrane system like I did (believe it's called Kerdi by Schleuter). It makes much more sense in terms of maintaining a waterproof barrier than the usual pan with grout and cement board overlap. I've had two failures with the latter that were done by "professionals." I was absolutely anal installing the membrane, but once done I have absolute confidence in it.

Sort of off the subject, but I loved Breaking Bad for two reasons. 1) it was a great series and 2) When Skylar walked into the bathroom and went, "oooohh, heated tile floor!" I was 3 days from laying the tile and immediately thought, wow, what a cool idea. So for $400 of materials I did the whole floor and got the programmable thermostat. Was really impressed with it, until this winter when I'm REALLY impressed with it!
Thanks H2ODude....what you wrote about your two failures prior to your redo is my potential nightmare and the reason I posted my questions. Thank you.

I'm seriously considering just going back in with component acrylic units where there is no shower pan per se....just a drain assembly, on these two upstairs "children" baths. The ones I have up there have lasted over 20 years.

The only reason I have a problem now is I can't find the replacement piece for the current drain assembly in one of them. Had I taken it out and resealed when it was not being used, I wouldn't be having that issue now.

But if I do end up going "tile" I will certainly investigate that membrane! Congrats on your heated floors!
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:09 AM   #26
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Really not understanding the inability to just replace the drain unit as a whole. Weird old thread pitch/count? Crossthreaded? A cutoff wheel gets the remaining attached bits out of the way and you just add a new shiny drain. This will require exposing the bottom of the shower so you can attach the new drain to the pan and downline pipe, but still a whole bunch less effort, time and cost compared to redoing several bathrooms.

I resist job growth. Keep things simple.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:13 AM   #27
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If you haven't already, research and post at this tiling forum re bases and waterproofing.
Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile - Powered by vBulletin

If this really all hinges on not being able to get that one drain part, it might be cheaper to have a new one made at a machine shop.
Thanks travelover....will read thru that link.

I was in the process of getting quotes to redo the hall bath when this drain issue came up in the "other" bath. Fixing it would make the shower functional but it doesn't address my desire for a bigger shower in that bath...which is something all of my children have complained about. When I built this house, kids were little. Who knew I'd have a 5'7 inch daughter and sons near or over 6 feet dating and probably marrying girls that are 5'10 inches.

Both showers need to either be larger or with more "head room" (with cap) going. The floors also have the original high grade linoleum or whatever it was I put in 20 plus years ago. Due for an upgrade there....and don't want to redo floors unless or until new showers are also in.

Thank you for the link!
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:15 AM   #28
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...

If this really all hinges on not being able to get that one drain part, it might be cheaper to have a new one made at a machine shop.
3-D printer time!

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Old 02-02-2014, 10:19 AM   #29
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Really not understanding the inability to just replace the drain unit as a whole. Weird old thread pitch/count? Crossthreaded? A cutoff wheel gets the remaining attached bits out of the way and you just add a new shiny drain. This will require exposing the bottom of the shower so you can attach the new drain to the pan and downline pipe, but still a whole bunch less effort, time and cost compared to redoing several bathrooms.

I resist job growth. Keep things simple.
Oh...it can be done calmloki but ....they will have to cut a hole from the ceiling below. I suppose my view is why pay the money to do that...when I don't like the shower to begin with and want to replace it with a larger shower. Why fix something that is on the chopping block so to speak. And it has been on my list of items to change.

I agree though...it has been frustrating not being able to find that darn part. Plumber spent 2 hours here trying to get it to work...so I already have that bill coming. Not sure what you mean by a cutoff wheel and what that will do.

Brother offered to take it to a machinist....and I may do that as it looks like the earliest I will be able to get these shower projects going may be April.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:23 AM   #30
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Oh and BTW...part of what is driving this ...is to fix the "nits" in the house that have bothered me such that it won't bother a potential buyer. Not that we are selling....but I always have that in my view.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:26 AM   #31
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3-D printer time!

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Maybe!
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:30 AM   #32
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I find the whole decision process on shower enclosures somewhat humorous. We did the tile and nice thick frameless glass with the special coating on it. Not cheap, but looks great. However, from a functional standpoint the fiberglass/acrylic prefab really makes more sense. Yeah the drain connection can leak but otherwise it's a foolproof water proof installation and their is no grout to get grungy. So we have this beautiful tiled shower that we have to clean, and after every shower we squeegee the glass to avoid the waterspouts!
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:38 AM   #33
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I'm not sure where exactly your drain is leaking, I'm assuming it's in the straight run between the P trap and the shower. I was thinking of a way to seal it from the inside. If you're adventurous you could try to line that run with something like a "tube" of fiberglass soaked with two part epoxy resin. The trick is a) getting it very dry first and b) inflating it so it seals up to the sides; I'd try a balloon. This suggestion no doubt is generated from decades of being in the water and sewer business in which we used this technique to reline sewers; the inflation of the tube or "bag" was done with hot water that triggered the catalytic reaction of the epoxy. Anyway, the closer to the shower the leak is the more inclined I'd be to try this.....
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:45 AM   #34
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I find the whole decision process on shower enclosures somewhat humorous. We did the tile and nice thick frameless glass with the special coating on it. Not cheap, but looks great. However, from a functional standpoint the fiberglass/acrylic prefab really makes more sense. Yeah the drain connection can leak but otherwise it's a foolproof water proof installation and their is no grout to get grungy. So we have this beautiful tiled shower that we have to clean, and after every shower we squeegee the glass to avoid the waterspouts!
That's where I'm heading...the prefab acrylic...especially for childrens baths rarely used.
Downstairs master already tiled.

Another point and question.
What to use to seal the drain. Plumber used and uses nothing but plumbers caulk. That is what was used on this drain. Shower not in regular use, the caulk dried out, cracked, broke up in pieces..etc.
Some have been recommending 100% silicone instead.
What say you?
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:45 AM   #35
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The kerdi waterproofing system is what most of the pros use ( but then most of my problems have been caused by the "pros" ). Here's their handbook on the system http://www.schluter.com/media/shower...v=201401280601

Also the John Bridge tile forum is a great info site ( mentioned earlier )

RedGard is another waterproofing system and it is roll on like paint RedGardŽ Crack Prevention and Waterproofing Membrane
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:48 AM   #36
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I find the whole decision process on shower enclosures somewhat humorous. We did the tile and nice thick frameless glass with the special coating on it. Not cheap, but looks great. However, from a functional standpoint the fiberglass/acrylic prefab really makes more sense. Yeah the drain connection can leak but otherwise it's a foolproof water proof installation and their is no grout to get grungy. So we have this beautiful tiled shower that we have to clean, and after every shower we squeegee the glass to avoid the waterspouts!
Well, sort of foolproof. Our house was about 2 years old when we noticed a crack in the floor pan portion of a fiberglass prefab shower. We had a company that did both boat and shower repairs put another layer of fiberglass on the pan. No problems after that and it looked good, but don't get a cheap unit and make sure it is put in correctly.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:49 AM   #37
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Oh...it can be done calmloki but .... Not sure what you mean by a cutoff wheel and what that will do.

Brother offered to take it to a machinist....and I may do that as it looks like the earliest I will be able to get these shower projects going may be April.

If this is just the precipitating excuse to do a bunch of (expensive) desired remodeling, then ignore fixit thoughts. Dremel makes little ittybitty abrasive cutoff wheels, and I've used their carbide fluted cutting bits with good success getting kitchen sink baskets gone, but I was thinking a 4" wheel. Like so:



This is a great tool for removing broken toilet flanges. or padlocks. or eyes....
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:51 AM   #38
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I'm not sure where exactly your drain is leaking, I'm assuming it's in the straight run between the P trap and the shower. I was thinking of a way to seal it from the inside. If you're adventurous you could try to line that run with something like a "tube" of fiberglass soaked with two part epoxy resin. The trick is a) getting it very dry first and b) inflating it so it seals up to the sides; I'd try a balloon. This suggestion no doubt is generated from decades of being in the water and sewer business in which we used this technique to reline sewers; the inflation of the tube or "bag" was done with hot water that triggered the catalytic reaction of the epoxy. Anyway, the closer to the shower the leak is the more inclined I'd be to try this.....
Not sure of the terminology. It leaked because of the degrading plumbers caulk. There was barely any on there when the flange thing was taken off. There was also a crack in the rim of this flange thing (the part that sits down tight on the shower floor). So perhaps more movement?

With that I can only say water was going where it would not normally go with this type of drain and one piece acrylic shower- all due to lack of plumbers caulk and perhaps a crack in the screw part of the flange thing. Don't you love my novice descriptions!
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:04 AM   #39
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Not sure of the terminology. It leaked because of the degrading plumbers caulk. There was barely any on there when the flange thing was taken off. There was also a crack in the rim of this flange thing (the part that sits down tight on the shower floor). So perhaps more movement?

With that I can only say water was going where it would not normally go with this type of drain and one piece acrylic shower- all due to lack of plumbers caulk and perhaps a crack in the screw part of the flange thing. Don't you love my novice descriptions!
My method wouldn't work unless you want to bring the epoxy up over the hub; probably could be done but aesthetically would be questionable. I would guess that in your case and Hermits, the problem was that the enclosure was flexing around the hub; plumbers putty should last a long time as long as things don't move. If they do it loses its plasticity and will crack. I used an acrylic for the mother in law addition I built and I remember well the instructions to push cement grout in from the sides once it's set to provide support for the shower floor. I did and have no problems so far after 8 years. If you don't have that support I would guess anything would fail after a while from the flexure around the drain.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:21 AM   #40
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Well, sort of foolproof. Our house was about 2 years old when we noticed a crack in the floor pan portion of a fiberglass prefab shower. We had a company that did both boat and shower repairs put another layer of fiberglass on the pan. No problems after that and it looked good, but don't get a cheap unit and make sure it is put in correctly.
Thank you for the heads up!
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