We clearly don't have enough debate or strong opinions here....
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MasterBlaster
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For those of us that are Supreme Court Challenged, perhaps you could enlighten us as to what the ruling was...
calmloki
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mickj said:
Well now that's just obvious. If you are going to abort don't be half way about it. Full abortion or no abortion at all. harumph.
HFWR
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I'm ok with it...
saluki9
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HFWR said:
Me too. To those who aren't, stop and think on human level what you are supporting
HFWR
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HFWR said:
I generally support the right to choose an abortion, but I regret that it's mostly used as retroactive birth control. As per partial-birth abortion, couldn't you have decided a bit earlier?
lazygood4nothinbum
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i frankly don't quite know what partial-birth abortion is--and please, don't bother offering me the no-doubt grizzly details; i'm having enough trouble just dealing with onychorrhexis.
in spiitual terms (if you are one to separate physical from spiritual--which i am not) i do feel life sacred: but that would be all of life, the good as well as the bad, not just some specific parts selected by particular religions.
on a humanistic and a judicial level, i hold each person to be sovereign in their self. i do not believe that anyone, born or unborn, has a right to any one else's body. no more so than i would believe that anyone has a right to one of my kidneys.
no one born or unborn has a right to my blood nor to my milk. that would be a privilege, not a right. in kind, i consider my own birth to be a privilege, not my mother's obliglation to have carried me to term. to think you had a right to be born is to exhale arrogance in your first breath. but to think your birth a privilege allows you to be that much more grateful to your mother and there you breathe in grace.
in spiitual terms (if you are one to separate physical from spiritual--which i am not) i do feel life sacred: but that would be all of life, the good as well as the bad, not just some specific parts selected by particular religions.
on a humanistic and a judicial level, i hold each person to be sovereign in their self. i do not believe that anyone, born or unborn, has a right to any one else's body. no more so than i would believe that anyone has a right to one of my kidneys.
no one born or unborn has a right to my blood nor to my milk. that would be a privilege, not a right. in kind, i consider my own birth to be a privilege, not my mother's obliglation to have carried me to term. to think you had a right to be born is to exhale arrogance in your first breath. but to think your birth a privilege allows you to be that much more grateful to your mother and there you breathe in grace.
saluki9
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MasterBlaster
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would we really need is post-adolecence post-birth abortion.
I can think of a few candidates that are well qualified for that procedure
I can think of a few candidates that are well qualified for that procedure
bosco
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Masterblaster said:would we really need is post-adolecence post-birth abortion.
I can think of a few candidates that are well qualified for that procedure
lots of that already going on in Iraq (hey, it was already a political thread....) Unfortunately, however, the abortionist is not well-qualified to be ordering the procedure.
lazygood4nothinbum said:
you get a lot of requests for your milk?
seriously, on this topic I disagree with you. A baby that you have given birth to (hey, if you can produce milk, you can probably give birth as well) has both a legal and a moral right to expect your milk, or the functional equivalent thereof. Not to provide said milk has a name: child abuse. The abortion debate seems to center on at what point in time a fetus obtains the status of a human being and therefore legal rights. In our society, children (including born babies) have rights, and those rights include expectations of care from their parents or responsible adults. I have no problem with this.
I am uncomfortable with the concept of abortion. But I recognize that reasonable people have different notions of when life (from a legal and moral perspective) begins. Let's face it, from conception until about age 15 they are all parasites (and sometimes much longer). I am more uncomfortable with the notion of legislating my morality than I am with the idea of abortions. That being said, I do not believe child abuse should be tolerated. So yes, at some point I am willing to see my moral values enforced on others.
CyclingInvestor
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lazygood4nothinbum
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bosco said:
in your mockery, you missed the metaphor entirely.
ladelfina
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http://tinyurl.com/226bwn
These kinds of procedures happen in drastic situations where the mother WANTED to carry the baby to term. It's not something undertaken "because someone doesn't want to be pregnant" anymore.
Ask the Bushies about that "abstinence only"sex ed and how THAT's going... if you're worried about abortions.
Also, ask 'em about their recent "pro-life" comments about arming students...
You want opinions? I got 'em.
These kinds of procedures happen in drastic situations where the mother WANTED to carry the baby to term. It's not something undertaken "because someone doesn't want to be pregnant" anymore.
Ask the Bushies about that "abstinence only"sex ed and how THAT's going... if you're worried about abortions.
Also, ask 'em about their recent "pro-life" comments about arming students...
You want opinions? I got 'em.
dumpster56
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ladelfina said:
Oh i agree with you here lady!
i read the article on abstinence only health ed what a joke. I have taugh health education for almost 30 years, I had boxes of condoms in my desk. I never gave them to any students but They knew where they were.
High school teenagers are well sexually active, and the abortion issue is just from the christian masses. This is one of the reasons liberals bash christians. The fact that they want their views to permeate the country. They truly believe that the late term abortion issue was that a person would get rid of a baby so late in the pregnancy. What a bunch of BS!! But if you listen to these people in a church on sunday it would scare the begeezus out of you. Muslim fanatics Christian fanatics man just beware of extremistists!!
how many more days are left in the bush administration? By the way have you seen the report about all of those lawyers from the Pat Robertson university that have been hired by this administration
?Wow, I said to my wife almost 15 years ago the christian coalition at that time was going to become a real issue in american politics. Man was i on point!
lazygood4nothinbum said:
The argument gets a little more complicated, since the fetus/child/baby did not just happen to get inside the mother by magic. Aside from cases of rape, the child is there due to actions by the mother. Given that, the case can be made that she does have some minimal responsibility to protect the life of that new individual.
This is not an argument for "no abortions, ever!" or "abortions should be allowed right up to the moment of birth." As soon as thinking goes beyond the bumper sticker level, it gets very complicated.
lazygood4nothinbum
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as i understand it, the major pro-choice objection to this ruling is that there is written in no consideration as to the health of the mother and that was all i commented upon.
if you want bumper sticker thinking then consider this: would jesus have sacrificed the virgin mary just to enter this world?
if you want bumper sticker thinking then consider this: would jesus have sacrificed the virgin mary just to enter this world?
bosco
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lazygood4nothinbum said:
possibly, although I was not trying to be mean-spirited.
I do agree with you, however, that a person that feels they have a right to have been born is arrogant.
As for bumper stickers, my personal favourite is
"Nuke the unborn gay baby whales for Jesus," but I value my vehicles too much to put it on them....
bright eyed
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i was just listening to the recording of the Supreme Court hearing and now i'm confused and getting annoyed.
what i gleaned were that there are two procedures that are used in Late term abortions - one called d&X and one called d&e.
it is only one type of procedure the court allowed to be banned.
and it seemed from the arguments that this really steps on the doctors abilities to make medical judgements about what is best for their patients.
what i gleaned were that there are two procedures that are used in Late term abortions - one called d&X and one called d&e.
it is only one type of procedure the court allowed to be banned.
and it seemed from the arguments that this really steps on the doctors abilities to make medical judgements about what is best for their patients.
ladelfina
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Purely the "ick" factor (a well-known medical distinction).
