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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:01 AM   #21
 
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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Originally Posted by youbet
What should be the number one priority? And should anything other than your number one priority be even dabbled with before number one is completely taken care of?

It seems like our de-prioritization of immigration issues in the past has significantly added to the problem of dealing with them today.
Very simple! - You just follow the money! - You set your top 5 Priorities with the problems that are costing the Tax Payers the most money! - Right now I'd venture to say that debacle in Iraq would be the clear priority.

I'm sure the Bribing of poiticians by Defense Contractors for the Defense Budget, would also be a serious drain on the Taxpayers - Or maybe you didn't hear about Duke Cunningham.

Are you interested in Actually Saving money or just punishing a few down and outs? Don't ever confuse Welfare reform with Budget reform

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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:12 AM   #22
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Re: Welfare cheaters

while i think it wonderful to try to teach people how to purchase real estate with no money down be successful or at least to encourage wage-slave mentality good work ethics, i suspect there are no guarantees.

just as you can go to yale and be as smart lucky as so-called-pres. bush or go to a state school and become a nobel prize winner, you can be raised in a fairly-well-to-do family and become nothing more than a lazygood4nothinbum or you can be born in harlem and outshine anyone in the hamptons.

similar statistics came to light in my own little non-scientific study at a recent 30-year high school reunion. the smartest girl in class lives in an apartment most of us would consider squalid while the biggest goof off now owns a couple of mercedes benz dealerships and keeps a nice downeast yacht one state over.

life, like truth, does not always fit a mold.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:14 AM   #23
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Re: Welfare cheaters

In a Fire Fight, create a diversion, force attention on a Non Issue to draw attention away from the Real Issue.

The Drum Beats are getting louder, Rumsfield is coming under more attacks.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:16 AM   #24
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Re: Welfare cheaters

So, when I see a picture of a truck load of dead Mexican illegals, baked toasty in the back of truck while trying to sneak in, I tell them their plight didn't rise to the top of our "budget reform" prioritization scheme? *We thought we'd just work on their problem later? We're just too busy following the money?

Sorry, just doesn't work for me. *I don't think it is all that simple.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:21 AM   #25
 
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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Originally Posted by youbet
So, when I see a picture of a truck load of dead Mexican illegals, baked toasty in the back of truck while trying to sneak in, I tell them their plight didn't rise to the top of our "budget reform" prioritization scheme? We thought we'd just work on their problem later? We're just too busy following the money?

Sorry, just doesn't work for me. I don't think it is all that simple.
We don't have enough enough money to secure our borders, because we are squandering it in Iraq! - Make sense now? - It is simple ! 5th grade math!
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:46 AM   #26
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Re: Welfare cheaters

I'm not sure how we got from welfare cheaters to the iraqi war and mexican immigrants, but I'll point out again that I still havent heard anyone say what problem they're trying to solve with this new immigration push or how they're going to successfully close the borders of a country this large, evict the existing immigrant population, and then deal with the economic problems that result. No fruit/veggie pickers, construction jobs, cleaning jobs, child care.

We've got people that wont stand in an air conditioned building at a cash register to get $8 an hour to ask "would you like fries with that?". But they're going to stand out in 100 degree heat around my area picking peaches, plums and walnuts? They're going to work 9pm to 5am cleaning a walmart? They're going to watch 4 small kids? They're going to haul 60lb packs of asphalt shingles up a ladder?

Get real.

I guess its a lot easier for rich people to blame the immigrants than to admit that a good size chunk of the population would rather cheat, steal or "work the system" than work an 8-5 job.

You've all got one. The little brother, niece, cousin, friends kid...that wont work at a job. Lays around all day. Now you know the middle class version. Take away half their education, and slap a corn dog and a budweiser in their hands at 10am and you've got a good idea of who you're expecting to climb a ladder next to a tree or scrub a floor. :
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:48 AM   #27
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
We don't have enough enough money to secure our borders, because we are squandering it in Iraq!* - Make sense now? - It is simple ! 5th grade math!
No, sorry. *While I agree we can't afford to squander money in Iraq, or any other place, I don't agree that we therefore can do nothing to bring some relief to the suffering, the down and out.

You sound just like GWB! *"Here's some simple 5th grade math that says people should suffer needlessly, so let 'em suffer."
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:51 AM   #28
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
We've got people that wont stand in an air conditioned building at a cash register to get $8 an hour to ask "would you like fries with that?".* But they're going to stand out in 100 degree heat around my area picking peaches, plums and walnuts?* They're going to work 9pm to 5am cleaning a walmart?* They're going to watch 4 small kids?* They're going to haul 60lb packs of asphalt shingles up a ladder?
Nah-- we're gonna use all the Halliburton contractors & military currently wasting the taxpayer dollars on Iraq.

Geez, I wish we'd spent the last five decades of foreign aid & defense budgets building a better border fence! *We could call it... oh, I dunno... the "Maginot Line" or the "Great Wall".

I think the implication behind the "5th grade math" comment is that we're unable to comprehend the issues or the mathematics required to correct the problems, so further debate isn't worth the effort. There's just no way to pick a hole in that argument!
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 10:04 AM   #29
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Re: Welfare cheaters

I've seen the 5th grade math.

$100-200B to build "walls" (fences, people, electronics, etc) that would keep out 70-85% of current illegal inflow.
$10-15B in agricultural loss
$12-20B in construction cost
$15-75B to find and "evict" the current illegal immigrants

People leaving the workforce because they cant get cheap quality child and home care. Businesses raising prices because cleaning and product handling costs rise. Inflation going through the roof.

So selma ray and billy bob no longer have an excuse to not get a job.

I guess that might be 8th or 9th grade math, where you actually think out the implications of your actions.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 10:12 AM   #30
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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I guess that might be 8th or 9th grade math, where you actually think out the implications of your actions.
Sorry, I can attest from personal parenting experience that it doesn't happen at the middle-school level either. You can do the math but you'd never realize that it could actually apply to you!

Possibly college. Maybe graduate school.

Or else whenever you can stop working and spend your time interrupting people's discussions with insults pleas for their attention to what you consider to be the really important problems.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 11:01 AM   #31
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
So selma ray and "billy bob" no longer have an excuse to not get a job.
Hey, leave our beloved ex-pres out of this!* A little respect is very much in order here.

Growing up in a single parent home in some hot and dusty little Arkansas town, there was every reason to need a little welfare and a help getting a job.

Let's maintain a little dignity here!* And who is selma ray?


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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 03:11 PM   #32
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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I've known a few people who tried cheating the system in the past.* Usually it was a situation where a boyfriend gets his girlfriend pregnant.* She has the baby, but then says she has no idea where the father is.* That way she gets help from welfare, and I guess the father just goes ahead and plays hide-and-seek with the authorities, working cash/under the table jobs and such.* You'd think though, that by the time the 4th kid was born, by the same man, they would've caught on!* :
The problem is that they are by different men!!! My mom taught school at a disadvantaged school... 5 years in a row she had a child from this one mother... all 5 had different fathers... she made out like a bandit with free food, free clothes, free rent... worth over $20K per year...
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 03:39 PM   #33
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Re: Welfare cheaters

I haven't seen too many middle class people saying "dang, I'm going to quit my job, give up most of my belongings, and move into the slums so I can get welfare!".

Instead, most of the people in that strata seem to be born into it, and that isn't quite the same head start for a kid as being born into the Rockefeller family.

If you want easy answers, then sure, Soylent Green time for everyone deemed (by whomever it is that deems that kind of stuff) as an "undesireable" would sure go a long way towards breaking that "cycle of poverty".

Coming up with an answer that is actually acceptable to most people as well as efficacious appears to be quite a bit more difficult.

My somewhat hazy recollection of dealing face to face with SSI recipients is that the vast majority of them sure seemed like "good" people, who just happened to also be pretty much dirt poor. But I suppose they still might make a reasonably tasty Soylent Green.

cheers,
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 03:54 PM   #34
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud
The problem is that they are by different men!!!* My mom taught school at a disadvantaged school... 5 years in a row she had a child from this one mother... all 5 had different fathers... she made out like a bandit with free food, free clothes, free rent...* worth over $20K per year...
Bet she was "living large" on that 20K with a family of 6.....
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 08:45 PM   #35
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Re: Welfare cheaters

>>We've got people that wont stand in an air conditioned building at a cash register to get $8 an hour to ask "would you like fries with that?".* <<

I remember my nephew getting really excited when he got promoted to $8 at his job at the ping-pong ball factory (or whatever it was.) WOW! A buck over minimum in our state!! You stilll can't live on it.

I started this thread because I have a feeling the nice middle-class people on this board haven't a clue who is actually getting welfare. Drawing on my personal experience, I conclude it is not the able-bodied or the mentally par. That's why I think people who say we can't have meaningful health care reform until we get rid of welfare bums are misguided. Blaming the poor is another way for conservatives to avoid addressing this and other problems.

We also blame the poor for our problems with illegal aliens. What about the corporations who are hiring those aliens? You can bet the Megacorps would love a guest worker program. I hear there is a provision in one of immigration bills for a sub-minimum wage for guest workers. Megacorp gets to exploit an inexhaustible supply of ultra cheap labor, American workers get shafted yet again.

Folks, not everyone can get a master's degree. There has to be something left for the Bubbas and Earlenes in this country to live on.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:24 PM   #36
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Tawny, my first hand experience is a little different. I live in one of the welfare capitals of the world. My wifes old neighborhood was predominantly folks who didnt work. What sort of assistance they were on is debatable although everyone fed off of each others 'discoveries'. All I can say is that nobody got in their car and went anywhere except to the grocery and liquor stores. They walked, they talked, they acted like reasonably intelligent people. No rhodes scholars, to be sure, but people who could work a cash register, stock a shelf, unload a truck, etc.

Yep, you cant live on $8 an hour. But two people making $8-10 each can get by. I'd think it'd beat sitting home in a lawn chair drinking bud at 10 in the morning. But I guess its easier to try and "work" the system or look for an "angle". *shrug*
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:28 PM   #37
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Probably a bit of both...
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:32 PM   #38
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Re: Welfare cheaters

I guess the good thing is I never needed to take anything to the dump. All I had to do was leave it in my wifes front yard and it'd disappear. Probably got whatever it was all the way home before they realized it was broken. I put an old empty AT desktop case out there one cuz it wouldnt fit in the trash can. Took less than 10 minutes to disappear.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:32 PM   #39
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Re: Welfare cheaters

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Originally Posted by Tawny Dangle


Bubbas and Earlenes in this country to live on.
What's with using these names to generalize about folks? *Who are you aiming at when you give these examples?
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:34 PM   #40
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Re: Welfare cheaters

People with funny names.
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